Siemens Demand Flow Chiller Plant Optimization Software

[RobsVette]

Does anyone have any experience with Siemens Demand Flow? I am only recently starting to hear about this and from what I can gather thus far, it sounds like head pressure control on steroids. On many recent projects, I have worked on we implement variable condenser water flow (based on reducing CW flow as chiller load decreases) in addition to all the other stuff that has become common place. What more does this system add to the mix? I don't get to much into the air side so I am wondering what else this system integrates and how specifically it works.

Thanks in advance for any insight.

 

[EnergyProfessional]

What did Siemens say when you asked them about their software and reviewed their information material?

 

[RobsVette]

Thats the odd thing. I was speaking to a salesman but they dont seem to actually know how it works. They will then tell you its patented technology. The only material they have showed us as of yet is a PDF on the internet claiming they can run a plant more efficient than anyone else with this new technology.

 

[EnergyProfessional]

either find a different sales person or a different software. If they don't help BEFORE you sign up, imagine how helpful they are after they have your money.
With software you basically get married to them and pay a subscription for updates etc. Be really sure they are worth it.

 

[RobsVette]

Completely agree with you, thus is why I am skeptical at best.

My opinion of this thus far is that its a really expensive version of variable condenser water flow.

This all started with suggested to implement parallel sensor less pump control from a pump manufacturer such and B&G or Armstrong. These are systems where the pump manufacturer programs the pump curve into the VFD and then based on power and speed of the pump, the VFD knows the flow and head of the pump. They then know where you are on the pump curve and can determine if operating more or less pumps in parrallel is more efficient. This concept which is technologically sound in my opinion seems to be somewhat in contract to siemens who wants to maintain direct control of everything in the plant.

I always remember the expression "the secrecy of my job does not permit me to know what I am doing" in situations like this.