Simpson MSA Alternate Installation

[XR250]

This is a detail that builders like to use around here. Using anchor bolts alone, I cannot make the detail fly (fails in uplift and in wind suction).
I am proposing adding a Simpson MSA as shown. It will fold up around the interior of the stud instead of the exterior (as typically installed). Does anyone see an issue with using the MSA in this manner?
We are not located in a high wind area FWIW.

Thanks

 

[jayrod12]

The stud pack to sill connection is a separate thing correct? This is strictly for sill to concrete?

If so, I don't see an issue.

 

[XR250]

Correct. - Thanks

 

[KootK]

1) It's always a little bit uncomfortable modifying things when capacities have been derived from testing.

2) Like jayrod, I'm confident that you could expect similar behavior and capacities from the configuration that you propose.

3) One subtle difference will be that you'll be reversing the orientation of the embossings. I doubt this changes anything significantly but it may make it difficult to hammer the nails all the way in without flattening the anchor.

4) The slab edge will be a formed surface such that you can secure the anchors prior to pouring, correct?

I know that you've been noodling on this particular condition for a long time now. Congratulations on coming up with what seems to be an elegant, inexpensive solution.

HELP! I'd like your help with a thread that I was forced to move to the business issues section where it will surely be seen by next to nobody that matters to me:

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=456235

 

[XR250]

The slab edge will be a formed surface such that you can secure the anchors prior to pouring, correct?

Hmm, good point. They use the brick as the form. Probably best to install the sill plate first and then hang them into the concrete pour. Might be a little tough to pre-bend them but they could figure that out.
In reality, they will likely just wet-set 'em

Thanks

 

[txeng91]

Just curious, what is the stud wall sitting on, 4” cmu?

 

[HouseBoy]

I'm wondering the same thing as tx... How is the heck do they install the 1/2" AB into the brick? PLUS... that's brick veneer right? Not supposed to support load other than brick veneer weight, right?

I have seen this detail before and I just don't understand how it is so attractive to the builder. I believe you if you say they like it but I just don't see it as being easy to install and def don't know how it is justified by code.

Some other questions:
How critical is it that the masonry coursing aligns with the slab?
How (well) is the bottom of the wall supported horizontally? Seems like the MSA helps a lot but I'm not sure how to rationalize the small amount of movement that ought to happen before the load capacity kicks in.

 

[XR250]

Just curious, what is the stud wall sitting on, 4” cmu?

The 4" brick wythe

I'm wondering the same thing as tx... How is the heck do they install the 1/2" AB into the brick? PLUS... that's brick veneer right? Not supposed to support load other than brick veneer weight, right?

I have seen this detail before and I just don't understand how it is so attractive to the builder. I believe you if you say they like it but I just don't see it as being easy to install and def don't know how it is justified by code.

Some other questions:
How critical is it that the masonry coursing aligns with the slab?
How (well) is the bottom of the wall supported horizontally? Seems like the MSA helps a lot but I'm not sure how to rationalize the small amount of movement that ought to happen before the load capacity kicks in.

@Houseboy,

Honestly, I am not sure how they do the bolts. My suspicion is that they cut the hook off and install in the holes/mortar joints.
I don't know if this is considered veneer as it is bonded to the CMU with mortar. Let's face it, there is a huge amount of gravity capacity here.
The builders like this detail as they can use the brick as the slab edge form. I prefer them to use a plywood form and let the slab pour over top of the whole mess but that is extra labor and then they have to hide the slab edge.
Yea, the movement issue is a concern of mine which is why I added the anchor bolts as belt and suspenders.
I know this is not a great detail from a structural or energy efficiency perspective, however, it is significantly better than what normally gets built. Ideally, they would use a water table detail with the studs sitting on the CMU, however, then the Arch's start complaining!

 

[KootK]

With respect to the movement, the anchors must resist load in bending rather than tension. No doubt that's what the embossing is about.

HELP! I'd like your help with a thread that I was forced to move to the business issues section where it will surely be seen by next to nobody that matters to me:

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=456235