Single family residence 13D or 13R - question on porch

[SprinklerDesigner2]

This is a retrofit on one of those real old rural southern Georgia homes.

Single story, no basement but 100 years old so lots of combustibility. Attic is unheated but a little insulation will handle any freeze problems seeing how we are not that far from Florida.

State calls for a 13D system but what I want to do is design it so it can be easily converted from 13D to 13R as it is a girls home and if they add one more occupant a 13R system would be required. So I am going to design it per 13R as far size of feed to the building and placement of sprinklers with a four head design. I want it so a conversion would be as simple as adding a FDC and alarms.

My question has to do with the wrap around porch... it's all wood which would be Type V construction.

6.6.5.1 Where a roof or deck is provided above, sprinklers shall be installed to protect attached exterior balconies, attached exterior decks, and ground floor patios serving dwelling units in buildings of Construction Type V.

Sprinklers required protecting the porch per NFPA 13R? It is all wood even the tongue and groove at ceiling. The way I read it the answer would be "yes"?

But hat if the design was NFPA 13D? The way I read 13D that answer to that question would be "No". Am I correct?

 

[MatthewJWillis]

I tried 3 times to read them out....

House is the "dwelling Unit" Porch is a covered, attached deck....

 

[SprinklerDesigner2]

What about 13D to get rid of sprinklers?

 

[MatthewJWillis]

From the '07


8.6.4* Sprinklers shall not be required in garages, open attached porches, carports, and similar structures.

 

[MatthewJWillis]

I like your plan though.

You can't be talking about more than 5 sprinklers yes?

 

[SprinklerDesigner2]

Actually about 25 heads. House is bigger than it looks.

The 2013 edition of 13R is the first one to mention Type V construction.

 

[stookeyfpe]

My question has to do with the wrap around porch... it's all wood which would be Type V construction.

Quote (NFPA #13R 2013 Edition)
6.6.5.1 Where a roof or deck is provided above, sprinklers shall be installed to protect attached exterior balconies, attached exterior decks, and ground floor patios serving dwelling units in buildings of Construction Type V.


Sprinklers required protecting the porch per NFPA 13R? It is all wood even the tongue and groove at ceiling. The way I read it the answer would be "yes"?

But hat if the design was NFPA 13D? The way I read 13D that answer to that question would be "No". Am I correct?

NFPA 13R: Yes, sprinkler protection of the exterior canopy is required.
NFPA 13D or IRC P2904: Sprinkler protection of the exterior canopy is not required.

 

[SprinklerDesigner2]

Thank you Stookey, I had a feeling that was it. It's always nice to have a place you can go where you can double-check to make sure you are right.

 

[TravisMack]

Not sure of how cut up the exterior is...but if you use the reliable sprinklers that cover 28' wide, would that cut down on it and reduce the amount enough to make it worth it.

Or, even a compromise...calc it and size it for the sprinklers at porch, but don't install. So, if they do need to go to 13R, then they put in the HSW sprinklers. But at least they have enough system capacity to do it.

Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC

http://www.mfpdesign.com

"Follow" us at

https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692

 

[bmlxd40]

I dont have any useful info to add at this point, but I am curious, are you installing a new water supply?

 

[SprinklerDesigner2]

I want a new domestic line into the building as the existing is 3/4" and it's older than I am.

Since a new line is going to be installed why not take it to 2" so it can be used for both domestic and fire?

Let me make it clear I am not qualified to determine what standard to use when installing a sprinkler system as that, whether the system be 13, 13R or 13D, is totally up to the building professional of record be it a registered architect or licensed professional engineer of record. I make no bones about it that I know enough about this kind of thing to be dangerous so I simply do not go there.... ever. As to the standard to be used I want it in writing from the responsible professional that is qualified to make that decision. I already have enough responsibility in what I do so why would I want even more when it isn't mine to begin with?

As I understand it the architect of record called for a 13D system because in Georgia if there are not more than six residents of a care center the system can be 13D and that is what the architect called for.

There is enough room in this home to put an additional three residents raising the population to 9 in which case a 13R system would be required.

I suggested we install the system as a 13R insofar as pipe sizes were concerned. Not counting the underground we're not talking over $50 to increase the pipe from 1" to 1 1/4" with a 2" riser and you got everything you need for a 13R system. What I wanted to do is be able to go to a 13R system without having to tear anything out should the owner ever want to go that option.

What would be the difference? An FDC, a flow and tamper switch would be about it IF we sized everything for a 13R to begin with. Besides that I like the idea of a nice, fat 2" pipe feeding my 13D system because nobody will question whether I have enough water or not.

But the porch will be a problem but I could do that by using Tyco's residential dry sidewall sprinklers and be done with it down the road. I figure about 12 sidewalls because that porch is on three sizes.