Single phase Pressure washer Keeps tripping out

[365resell]

HI all this is my 1st post sorry if in wrong place.

I have been rattling my brains as to whats wrong.

I have an old professional washer single phase that seems to give up the ghost abou 1 yr ago, Its a good one ( when working ) brass head etc.

I have replaced some parts to get it going again. IE the fan end bearing, new capacitor and new breaker switch.

Its in bear stat as of now testing but when i turn it on it turns for about 10 secs then trips off. I can restart straight away but the same thing again trips after 10 secs .
any ideas please.

these are the specs:

Its a simmm power cleaner pressure washer as this website

http://origin2.simmm.com/products.aspx?ln=en&flfine=ok&wait=none&idprod=B2110G

but spec it older.

moto details
phase 1 motor
hp : 3
kw: 2.2
S: 1

volts : 220

LC : F
Hz: 50
A: 14
cosq :0.96
rpm : 1400
IP: 55
C: 70 uF

thanks
Craig

 

[Skogsgurra]

Do you have to reset thermal protection before starting again?

Gunnar Englund

http://www.gke.org

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100 % recycled posting: Electrons, ideas, finger-tips have been used over and over again...

 

[365resell]

No its just trips from the switch it's self always has done Year before if it did it on odd occassion i just switched back on.

i dont think the motor is sticking and not sure its a wire problem as it goes for 10 secs am i right in saying if it was a wireing problem it would just trip in 1 sec?

could there be a problem or short in the mains cable or would that go in 1 sec also

thanks for help so far

 

[365resell]

if it helps anyone here are some pictures.
The electric housing only consists of 1 capacitor and 1 trip/breaker switch ( both new)

 

[ScottyUK]

I would be suspicious of the pressure switch on the pump discharge. They are typically not of the same quality as a pressure switch from the process industries so they suffer from corrosion and entrained grit and dirt. In its bare state is it pumping water or compressing air?


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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[365resell]

Cheers but the switch is a new one the same as the old one.

In its bare state it cant pump water i took the brass head off to eliminate any problems there. Its is basically a Solid state Motor ( not bushes i think its a heavy steal centre piece inside) 2 bearings either side of the shaft/housing the the fan blades at back and front housing has the normal swish plate and the 3 small rams you see in the picture that fit into the brass head to pump the water .

is that what you ment?

 

[Skogsgurra]

I say this with the utmost hesitation, but: Did you try pressing the trigger? Most of these machines run for a moment when plugged in. They run until pressure is OK and then stop and wait for pressure to drop (when you press the trigger) and then starts pumping again to keep pressure up.

Fooled my neighbour when he had bought a Kärcher. I guess this is working the same way.

Gunnar Englund

http://www.gke.org

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100 % recycled posting: Electrons, ideas, finger-tips have been used over and over again...

 

[waross]

Are the pump and swash plate properly lubricated or have they run dry?

Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter

 

[365resell]

Hi guys and thanks for your help so far

As its an old verison im fairly sure it can run for a good while with out any water its a sealed unit. I thought that the pressure was only related to any wear any tear on the pump and as the brass head is not connected and so no strain or power surge then it should at least run for a while before cut off??

Just to recap i have had it to bits and all that was replaced was the motor end bearing, then it was slotted through the moter to other side and then the other bearing on then the swish plate with roller bearings ( that still move round feely if they want, then its end cap swish plate cover goes on ( and yes new oil has been put in to the correct site level). then the 3x rams go one.

It really odd that she always starts for 10 secs then trips over and over again.

this is what the websites says:

Professional Pump AXA with patent which applies pressure directly on the valves preventing dispersion , Stainless steel pistons with moulded inlay in ceramic, Brass pump head, Double seals with recycling of water losses, No pressure while in by-pass, More than 5 hours in by-pass mode without damage, Pressure regolation, Inlet water max. temperature: 70°C, Low revolution (1400 rpm), All motors for continuous rating, Fully adjustable pressure, Brass pump with integrated by-pass

http://origin2.simmm.com/products.aspx?ln=en&flfine=ok&wait=none&idprod=B2110G

I think i may have to get and qualified sparky to check the motor out then??

 

[electricpete]

I'm not sure if it related to tripping or not, but I agree with Bill I would be very careful about running a water pump bone dry. You mentioned bypass mode, presumably that bypasses from discharge to suction.... there is at least fluid flowing (although there is sometimes a concern during recirc of heat buildup in the fluid). It doesn't really tell you anything about the ability of this thing to run dry if that's what you were thinking. Sorry if I have misunderstood.

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Eng-tips forums: The best place on the web for engineering discussions.

 

[365resell]

ok i will try tomorrow to connect all up again with water going throught the brass end ( that i will refit\) and then see but i have a funny feeling it will do the same thing.

Also i ment to say when i came back today i gave it another go from cold and it ran for about 30 secs . then tripped. I then ran it again say 2 more times and each time its tripping quicker say 15 secs then 10 secs.

also the motor casing and the mains cable are only just warm to touch is this normal only on a quick few runs?

I have checked the mains plug and all is tight and firm and good. May there be a short in the mains cable?? or would this not run at all if it was?

thanks and i will let you know how i get on

 

[electricpete]

One other question - did the shaft spin before it tripped or not?

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Eng-tips forums: The best place on the web for engineering discussions.

 

[365resell]

Hi it did spin but it was a bit stiff on part of a revolution thats why i bought a new bearing thinking it was that ( it is better now tho). I also rubbed the centre ( heavy part of motor, not sure what called its a solid piece of metal as it did have some surfcae rust on parts )

Hope that helps?

 

[waross]

If the bearing was so bad that the rotor was rubbing the stator, the motor may have suffered heat damage.
If the motor is tripping a good overload with the pump removed, there is a good possibility that you have shorted turns in the motor windings. It is possible that the motor needs to be rewound.
The three most common causes of an overload tripping repeatedly are;
1> Faulty overload relay. I understand that you have replaced this device with no joy..
2> Severe overload on the motor. With the pump removed and ther motor free to turn this should not be an issue, but there is one possibility, a small amount of conductive dust between the rotor and the stator will act as a brake. The motor will spin freely with no current applied, but when the current is applied, the particles magnetize and put a heavy drag on the motor. A lot of magnetic dust will hold the motor down to a few RPM or less when it tries to start. You have the pump off, check for magnetic dust.
3> Bad motor windings. Most often turn to turn shorts. The stator may also have been damaged if the rotor was dragging heavily. In severe cases the rotor drag may move a lamination tooth enough to cut through the insulation on the windings.
Note; Re some of the suggestions;
If ther is no flow through a positive displacement pump, The load on the motor increases to the point that the motor may stall. In pressure washers this is avoided by;
A> A pressure relief valve.
B> A pressure switch that stops the motor until the trigger is pressed, dropping the pressure.
or
C> Both of the above.
However, if you have removed the pump from the motor, this should not be an issue.

Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter

 

[365resell]

Hi Bill thanks for that
It may sound like it now you say that.
I am really just trying to elliminate all possiblilities as best i can by means of the phyisical side of things ( like remove sections.

Do you think if i empty the oil ( swosh plate casing part )

and tried it ( even tho i dont think the tension of the 3 springs on the rams would make any effect) to see if thats it?

I do really think its the motor side as you say and im not electrical person on motors so i think i need some one local to look at it.

Its a last resort as it is a great washer when going but may just call it a day and buy a petrol on off ebay .

cheers any way and i will let you know

 

[ScottyUK]

Where abouts in the world are you located?


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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[365resell]

in the uk oxfordshire

 

[waross]

Try rmoving everything from the motor and just running the bare motor if that is possible.

Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter

 

[ScottyUK]

Definitely don't drain the oil from the pump housing and then run the pump, that will wreck it.

Shame you weren't a bit further north, I'm curious about this!


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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[365resell]

thanks for all your help so far.

I think i need to take more pictures to explain the layout of the pump better.

As i would have thought just the motor with the main shaft running though it on its own should work?? unless the switch is triggered on a pressure system from the main shaft ( is that why it may be tripping as it thinks there is not enough load on the shaft?)

do you all think its worth me putting it all together and connecting water as normal to see if works or you definatily think its just the mmotor/ switch/ connection problem?

Cheers.

PS SIMMMS in italy who make these say this?????

You need to decrease the pressure of the pump.
The motor for some reason is going in overload.

Can that be right?