JackTheEITman
Civil/Environmental
- Dec 12, 2018
- 1
Hello All,
I am having some engineering headaches regarding lining my calculations from the NDS up with some structural software I'm using to check my work. Can I get someone to poke some holes in my hand calculations? I am going nuts trying to figure out what is wrong. Within NDS, equation 3.9-3 keeps coming out with a different number within my software (woodworks Sizer) than it does in my hand calcs.
Assumptions: (1) ply 2x4 Spruce pine fir #2, loaded with 62.7 plf wind after relevant factors (matches loading in software), and 804 lbf dead axial, 617.7 lbf live roof axial. Continuously braced along weak axis.
Wet service factor, Temp factor, incising factor are all 1.
The values I KNOW are correct, because they match the output of my software every time I run it with different values, are for the example's sake:
fb = 1786 psi
Fb' = 2415 psi
fc = 271
Emin = 510,000 psi
Emin' = 510,000 psi
Le1 = 91.5 inches (true column length)
d1 = 3.5 inches
col. stability factor, Cp = .408
Fc = 1150
CF bending = 1.5
CF axial = 1.15
and here are my calculations I'm concerned about - assuming everything above is correct (I will of course go back and double check even those, but want to check the logic below here as well). Could someone point out if anything below is wrong?
Fce1 = .822 * Emin' / (le1/d1)^2 = .822 * 510000 / (91.5/3.5)^2 = 613.4 psi
^This ALONE is putting the second term over the answer woodworks gets, since it is the only unknown I have in the second term of 3.9-3 - so I'm assuming something has to be wrong here? It outputs fb, Fb', and fc identical to my values, and doesn't output Fce.
(the following is wrong, but gave me a correct value: I even tried calculating my own Emin' to see (despite the fact that it outputs Emin' as 510000), taking an assumption that COV=.11 for machine stress rated (help page says it assumes as much), then Emin'=E*[1-1.645*COVe]*1.03/1.66 = 711488. If I also calculate Fc' using a beam stability factor, instead of column stability as I'd assumed, of .946 (taken using Fbe of 4300, Rb = 12), I actually get 1.1! But, it does not work if I change my loads and recheck. Plus, those assumptions are wrong.)
Fc' = Fc * LDF * CF * Cp =
Fc' = 1150 * 1.6 * 1.15 * .408 = 863 psi
Eq. 3.9-3, I'm assuming the third term does not apply since it's not biaxially loaded and would go to zero, which leaves:
(fc/Fc')^2+fb1/(Fb1'(1-(fc/Fce1))) =
(271/863)^2+1786/(2415(1-(271/613.4))) = 1.423
The output from Sizer is 1.10 for equation 3.9-3.
To reiterate, the outputs of my software are in its calculation portion:
fb=1786
F'b=2415
fc=272 (worst case load combo, I agree and got 271)
Emin' = 510000
Cp = .408
And the other ones shown above.
My hunch is that I am applying my factors wrong, but I'm using the factor applicability for sawn lumber chart and I cannot find any errors with the ones I've applied - Sizer appears to multiply following the same convention and yet 3.9-1 keeps coming out incorrrect. Any glaring issues I'm not seeing?
Any input would be greatly appreciated, I'm trying to learn the NDS better.
Thank you!
I am having some engineering headaches regarding lining my calculations from the NDS up with some structural software I'm using to check my work. Can I get someone to poke some holes in my hand calculations? I am going nuts trying to figure out what is wrong. Within NDS, equation 3.9-3 keeps coming out with a different number within my software (woodworks Sizer) than it does in my hand calcs.
Assumptions: (1) ply 2x4 Spruce pine fir #2, loaded with 62.7 plf wind after relevant factors (matches loading in software), and 804 lbf dead axial, 617.7 lbf live roof axial. Continuously braced along weak axis.
Wet service factor, Temp factor, incising factor are all 1.
The values I KNOW are correct, because they match the output of my software every time I run it with different values, are for the example's sake:
fb = 1786 psi
Fb' = 2415 psi
fc = 271
Emin = 510,000 psi
Emin' = 510,000 psi
Le1 = 91.5 inches (true column length)
d1 = 3.5 inches
col. stability factor, Cp = .408
Fc = 1150
CF bending = 1.5
CF axial = 1.15
and here are my calculations I'm concerned about - assuming everything above is correct (I will of course go back and double check even those, but want to check the logic below here as well). Could someone point out if anything below is wrong?
Fce1 = .822 * Emin' / (le1/d1)^2 = .822 * 510000 / (91.5/3.5)^2 = 613.4 psi
^This ALONE is putting the second term over the answer woodworks gets, since it is the only unknown I have in the second term of 3.9-3 - so I'm assuming something has to be wrong here? It outputs fb, Fb', and fc identical to my values, and doesn't output Fce.
(the following is wrong, but gave me a correct value: I even tried calculating my own Emin' to see (despite the fact that it outputs Emin' as 510000), taking an assumption that COV=.11 for machine stress rated (help page says it assumes as much), then Emin'=E*[1-1.645*COVe]*1.03/1.66 = 711488. If I also calculate Fc' using a beam stability factor, instead of column stability as I'd assumed, of .946 (taken using Fbe of 4300, Rb = 12), I actually get 1.1! But, it does not work if I change my loads and recheck. Plus, those assumptions are wrong.)
Fc' = Fc * LDF * CF * Cp =
Fc' = 1150 * 1.6 * 1.15 * .408 = 863 psi
Eq. 3.9-3, I'm assuming the third term does not apply since it's not biaxially loaded and would go to zero, which leaves:
(fc/Fc')^2+fb1/(Fb1'(1-(fc/Fce1))) =
(271/863)^2+1786/(2415(1-(271/613.4))) = 1.423
The output from Sizer is 1.10 for equation 3.9-3.
To reiterate, the outputs of my software are in its calculation portion:
fb=1786
F'b=2415
fc=272 (worst case load combo, I agree and got 271)
Emin' = 510000
Cp = .408
And the other ones shown above.
My hunch is that I am applying my factors wrong, but I'm using the factor applicability for sawn lumber chart and I cannot find any errors with the ones I've applied - Sizer appears to multiply following the same convention and yet 3.9-1 keeps coming out incorrrect. Any glaring issues I'm not seeing?
Any input would be greatly appreciated, I'm trying to learn the NDS better.
Thank you!