Small Firm vs. Big 1

[pavlik]

I have been offered a position on a 6-person MEP consulting firm.
I know that in a month I will be managing my own projects, going to meetings, making desicions and being responsible for entire projects. All that with less than a year of HVAC experience. Once I get my PE I will be on a fast track to an associate position (my boss' opinion).

On the other hand I have been offered a job at a 550- person powerhouse with offices in 12 US cities. The money is better but opportunity to rise through the ranks is impeded by the shear size of the company.

So it's now a quesion of opportunity vs. security, small vs. national, tenat fit-outs vs. UN headquaters chiller upgrades...
any opinions are appreciated.

Thanks

 

[insideman]

I would much prefer the small firm. Little danger of getting lost in the crowd, much less likely to be beauocratic.

 

[GregLocock]

Congratulations. Yes I'd go with the small company. Up until you are 30 or so it is a good idea to get a wide range of experience, which you are more likely to get in a small company I think.

Cheers

Greg Locock

 

[BJC]

What kind of work do they do? Does the bigger company get more diverst and interesting jobs?
If you can do well in one why would you do well in the other? In other words, if your good your good-it won't matter where you are.
In ten years will you wind up with one years experience ten times or ten years of experience?
Your primary goal should be to make yourself marketable, that you do by gaining knowledge and experience.
Small firms disappear all the time. If you are say a strip mall or grade school expert in a small company that goes belly up your professionall life may be over.

 

[epoisses]

Start at a big company, learn the basics, discover what you like, get to know the small companies and move over to your favorite one. A small company can be much more fun than a big one, but it has to be the right small company...
By the way, the bigger ones go out of business just as easily, only it's more spectacular.

 

[IRstuff]

Depends on how comfortable you are with the small company.

All else being equal, go with the small company to learn the ropes. While you are young, your ability to absorb risk is higher. As you get older and acquire a family, your ability to take risks diminish.

The advantage of going the small company route first will be that when you are well along in your career and decide to or are forced to go out on your own, you will have had the small company experience and will know where not to make some of the mistakes, rather than going in as a complete newbie.

TTFN

 

[tygerdawg]

From my experience, smaller companies provide more opportunity for variety because of the number of hats you wear, higer adrenaline level because you don't have the support structure of a big company, and more likely one-on-one contact with customers (if that interests you). But your feet are on the fire because it's only you and a couple of others. Rarely have I seen them able to pay at the higher percentiles of the salary range, nor offer the juicier types of benefits. There's more opportunity for disaster due to NOT having the big company's support structure and you crashing and burning because your cash flow runs out. These are jobs for the younger guys or the daredevils IMHO.

Larger companies I've found to have better benefits, better pay, better equipment (e.g., smaller companies use those PCs until they die), and better sofware all because more mature companies have grown over the years to have a good steady source of cash flow. There's also more frustration due to bureaucracy and corporate structure, more nooks & crannies in which to hide yourself. More incompetent buffoons who have lodged themselves in the management ranks, and longer range / longer time frame tasks. But you're part of a larger organization, so you're just a cog in the works.

I'm mid-career, and have done both, including my own biz. I now have a hybrid of the two, a small company with freedom and feet-on-the-fire responsibility, but also with plus good pay and bennies and an easygoing industry (none of that burdensome QS9000 stuff). At this point in my career I can also actually see the tip of my retirement poking its head up over the horizon. Them bennies carry a lot more weight when you have family & kids to support in a recession.

TygerDawg

 

[ICman]

I've worked for both large and small over the last 30+ years. There are pros and cons for both, as noted above. I think for someone with only one year of experience, the larger firm would be better. You will have the advantage of a mentor, or at least other experience to draw from.

The large company has better benefits (and pay) and will actually provide opportunities to help guide you into the field in which you should pursue. For instance, HVAC can cover the design of systems or equipment, large buildings or factories or single-family homes and apartments, and you can always go into personnel or project management.

You might even get a choice of cities to live in, each presenting a different set of opportunities. The likelihood of travelling will be greater with a large company, at least more than 100 miles from the office. I enjoyed that when I was a young engineer.

While a small company provides plenty of challenges and upward mobility, I think it would be better to have some experience before taking that opportunity.

Good luck wherever you end up!

 

[EddyC]

I suggest going with the small company if you one day plan to start a company of your own. Working for the small company will accelerate your learning experience. Be advised that the small company will put you in a "sink or swim" working environment.

If you want to be an employee the rest of your life and want to work regular hours and regular days, then I suggest the big company.

It really depends upon your goals.

 

[makeup]

Big company first, you will have more opportunity for development and diversification. They will have the budget to spend on you. Small companies can not do this, they are not cash rich, your development will become dependant on work load. Not many small company bosses actually deliver on promises, they are dependant on too many variables as they grow. Believe me I have been here and cocked up by going small. You can always go small company later and having had big company experience finding a hob will be easier.

 

[tomaspin]

I would just like to add to makeup's comments.

I started my working like with a large UK defence equipment manufacturer, who offered a two year graduate training package.
During my time there I spent time in most of the commercial ( sales, contracts,purchasing, accounts) production and engineering departments, which gave me a valuable insight into how their activities influenced the operation of the business as a whole.
When working as production foreman an the shop floor, I learnt about the practical problems encountered by the shop floor on a daily basis, and more importantly improved my communications skills.
I also did the full range of both destructive and non destructive testing (x-ray, ultrasonic etc) in the metallurgy lab. I did time and motion studies for process development. Occasionally I did some 'proper' engineering!

I have learnt that there is more to engineering than doing calculations and driving a desk. Practical problem soving, people skills and an appreciation of the commercial aspects of enginnering are also vitally important. University gave me my technical training, however my two year grad training turned me into a more rounded individual.

14 years on, I now work for a small company, my work is highly specialised, and I have considerable freedom to run projects as I see fit. I find this vastly preferable to working for a large corporation, however I have to recognise the fact that the' big boys' are best when it comes to training!

 

[GregLocock]

That's a good point. I also did my first few years in a very large company, and was rotated around many different departments. I was one of the lucky ones, and actually got to do some 'real' engineering early on. None the less, knowing how the rest of a big company worked has been invaluable.

Although in my first post I was in favour of the small company, I must confess having read the many replies that it is nowhere near as 'obvious' as I'd thought.


Cheers

Greg Locock

 

[SLTG]

How do you determine big company and small company?

 

[Lorentz]

Hello All!

pavlik, if I were in your shoes my head would be spinning, because you are getting excellent advice that recommends completely opposite choices! Even GregLocock is changing his mind!

Though I'm biased to small companies, I think the best way to decide is by looking at your potential supervisors at the two firms. In many ways the boss you work for is far more important than the company you work for.

And bear in mind that large companies are populated by bureaucratic types who have so much time on their hands they feel compelled to dream up make-work projects to justify their positions. You, as the new hire may wind up working for someone like that.

Good luck to you whatever you decide!

 

[crossframe]

Lorentz is right. Salary, benefits, and resources aside, my experience has been that "your" office and working environment is more important than how big or how many offices/people/etc your company has elsewhere.

 

[joekm]

My situation is similar to where you might be a few years down the road. (This is long)

Some years ago, I was working at a relatively large aircraft modification facility. At the time, the consulting firm I presently work for was in a limited partnership with them. However, this consulting firm focused more on large commercial aircraft (Boeing, Airbus, etc.) while the modification facility was more business aircraft (Gulfstream, Falcon, etc.). As the climate changed, the consulting firm and the big mod shop parted ways. I was recruited by the consulting firm and, at the time, this represented a decent step up.

Working at the consulting firm has been great. I have absolute freedom to approach problems however I see fit. It's almost as good as having your own business with somebody else taking the underlying financial risk. Another plus is that, when you are down to a small team, there tends to be no "deadwood". Everyone needs to know their job and know it well. You have to function well as a team and you have to be able to rely on the other person's skills when the need arises. As an example, we had an engineer here for a while that, in my opinion, had excellent analytical skills. However, he really struggled with accessing "real world" situations involving design of repairs, mechanism, installations, etc. This person could sit in a cubie at Boeing or Lockheed or some similar large firm and most likely find a niche where he would do very well. In this environment, however, where your skills had to be more broad based, he just couldn't keep up. Eventually, he was let go.

So anyway, the point is that the autonomy and freedom of movement available at a small consulting firm is a huge plus provided you can take on the additional responsibility and skill variety required.

Now for a significant minus.

While working at this consulting firm, my wife and I have had two children. I currently have a 3 1/2 year old son and a 2 year old daughter. Small businesses are somewhat limited in the kind of benefits they can offer. With a young family, I'm starting to become aware of that. Furthermore, my father changed jobs a lot while I was young (climbing the corporate ladder kind of thing) so I was constantly changing schools. That really sucked and I'm hoping to not put my kids through that. So now, with my son rapidly approaching school age, I have to ask myself some pretty hard questions. Right now, because of my family, my needs have changed and, even though this is an outstanding consulting firm, I probably need to consider other options as well as think about where I'm going to be when my kids are in school.

Anyway, I hope this adds some further insights.

--
Joseph K. Mooney
Director, Airframe Structures - FAA DER
Delta Engineering Corporation

 

[JasonG]

Wow. Did you expect so much good (and conflicting) advice? All points are valid, though my vote is for the small company. I ditto IRstuff's remarks.

To sort through the conflicting advice try this website:

http://www.mattelgames.com/magic8/flash_index.asp