Small Office, Big Job 4

[PengStruct]

An architect has a 3 story, 100,000ft2 school project with parking at the ground level with a 2nd floor pedestrian bridge connecting it to an existing building. I'm a one-man office and have been up and running for 1.5 years after working in design offices for 10 years with about 7 years of well rounded design experience.

Would I be biting off more than I could chew with this job? Much of my past experience is renovation work old brick buildings however I have designed 2 new low rise steel structures and one mid-rise concrete structure. I'm confident that I could handle the technical aspects but being a one-man office and putting all my eggs in this one basket seems like it may be a bad idea.

Any other small guys out there have experience with this situation? Should I stick with the small projects and keep it simple?

 

[XR250]

I would stay away from it. You will probably lose all your current clients in the process as you will likely not have time for their jobs.

 

[Guest262653]

I've designed a couple of 20000m2 multi-storey RC buildings entirely on my own, drafting and quantity take-off included. My experience level is similar to yours, albeit it also includes heavy geotechnical works. It all depends on the architectural complexity and the time constraints you have... If you feel that you're technically capable and that you can meet the deadlines, why not?

I would just advise you to get on board a friend with the same experience level for any unforeseen events and to ramp up your liability coverage.

 

[KootK]

In my market, a few structural design collaboratives have sprung up. These are guys and gals that work from home in their jammies and pool resources when they need to. It makes me pretty jealous really. Maybe that's something that you could explore. I'd have a hard time turning the project down as it may represent significant progress within your market. Like XR250 says though, it's a liability if it costs you other, steady clients or if you're unable to do the project well due to limited resources. Maybe now's a good time to add your first employee? Don't tell the poor bastard that his career may be only one project long!

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

 

[Archie264]

With the usual caveat that only you know what's right for you I would encourage you to consider it. I would really put you on the map in your area. But only if you are willing to put in 12+ hours a day for the next year, including weekends. As the smaller work comes in concurrently you might want to let them know that you're temporarily overbooked but to please consider you in the future. After you've succeeded with this one at some point you might be faced with the decision of whether or not to get big and on that note there's nothing that says you have to get big...but perhaps I'm getting ahead of myself. In any case, I've seen some big jobs put out of small offices. Good luck.

 

[BadgerPE]

Our firm recently completed a project similar to this. While we are much larger than you, I did 95% of the structural design on it and I think you could definitely work on this as a one man shop. My recommendation would be that you contract out the drafting design services to a local drafter/firm to more effectively meet the timeline requirements. Another item worth noting would be complete scope definitions with the project lead (architect) up front to eliminate the proverbial "scope creep" that could potentially make you miss timeline goals and/or budget.

I am in complete agreement with Archie that a project like this could really put your name out there. But don't forget that the small customers are often the repeat customers and it is wise to keep them happy with all of their needs.

 

[kipfoot]

If this is an architect you've worked successfully with before, then I'd say definitely go for it. If you fee uneasy about the client, then pass.

You need to know how this architect works. Are they sensible and flexible with detailing? Will they have junior staff doing the work and asking you dumb questions? Will they throw their whole office on the project in the last month and overwhelm you. Will they demand a deadline from you and then change the project and extend the deadline when you've already burned your fee? Do they pay promptly? Do they work together when things go wrong or point fingers?

I think it comes down to feeling comfortable in who you're working with.

 

[XR250]

@pengstruct;

I was probably projecting my business model onto your situation.
If you need the work or if this is the direction you want your business to go, I would go for it.
You could also lose your butt on the job if it is fixed fee, so be careful with your bid and contract.
I personally do not do anything over about 10,000 square feet as I have too many repeat, small clients to keep happy.
I am also too A.D.D. to work on a job of this size. I need variety.

 

[PengStruct]

So many good points to consider from you all. I'm still teetering on the fence about it.

XR250: yes, I'm trying to figure out what my fee would be. Starting by identifying a possible lateral system, column locations, etc. It's a pretty straight forward design in that sense but what to base the fee on? 1 or 2% of total construction costs which, just googling I found a cost for elementary schools of $300/ft2.

AVSCORREIA: you mention liability coverage, I was under the impression I would only need to up it above the 1 mill policy I have if the client required it.

Kootk: I'm still hesitant to hire directly mainly because I have no room in my "home office" for an employee. This question was bound to come up sooner or later but so far I've been steering clear of all the complications and overhead of expanding. Part of my strength and peace of mind is that I do all the design and drafting so I know each job intimately however, on a bigger job like this it seems necessary to have a second set of eyes on it. I do have another engineer who I'm starting to collaborate with so your idea is a good option.

Archie264: True, I probably would regret not at least going after this job given how much time I spend on getting, setting up and managing all the small jobs.

Badger: So right about the scope creep. I can define a clear scope for a particular design but how do you estimate a fee for the preliminary phase which has to go through community approval and likely will require changes? Should I just provide lump sums for each phase with any changes to each phase being additional? How do you proportion the fee for each phase?

Kipfoot: Good point. I have worked with the architect on several smaller jobs and feel relatively comfortable but can't say we have a working relationship. I cannot tell if he's interested in bringing me in because he likes my work or because he thinks I'll be cheap.

 

[Archie264]

>>>...I personally do not do anything over about 10,000 square feet as I have too many repeat, small clients to keep happy...<<<

XR250, Excellent business model. With most gold rushes the ones who make the money are those who go unnoticed selling maps and pick-axes to the glamor-boys. I won't let anyone in on your secret, though.

 

[TehMightyEngineer]

I'd say go for it. You'll probably be pulling 60+ hour weeks to try to get it done and balance those few clients that can't wait for their design but it's probably worth it. I'd look at it from the perspective of "do you expect to make enough money on this big project than you will lose in smaller repeat clients". Completely second the "scope creep" comment; you'll want to make sure your contract includes language so that revisions, added scope, or other things that usually end up eliminating profit are nipped in the bud.

Lastly, I'd also make sure you're 100% capable of doing this. Make sure you can handle the structural analysis, lateral forces, connections, drafting etc. This is definitely not the project to learn a new skill on. You might consider finding consulting with another engineer solely to bounce ideas off and double check your work for gross errors (not sure how the liability would work for this, could get messy). Either way, if you're accurate that you feel you're technically capable, then I'd go for it. Better to try it now and fail than be asking this same question next time a big project lands in your lap.

Maine Professional and Structural Engineer.

http://www.fepc.us

 

[bookowski]

A job of that size could definitely be done with a 1 man shop. If it's something that you would have done at your past company and within your wheelhouse technically then it shouldn't be a problem. One 100k sq. ft. job is many times easier than 10-10k sq. ft. jobs.

 

[kingnero]

Even though I'm in a complete other segment of the market, I agree with bookowski. Don't let the size scare you off, but take the complexity into consideration. Dealing with the same people for a longer period can be both an advantage as a disadvantage. Let me repaet another poster: make sure you're confortable with them, but back everything up in a firm contract.

 

[XR250]

"Kootk: I'm still hesitant to hire directly mainly because I have no room in my "home office" for an employee. This question was bound to come up sooner or later but so far I've been steering clear of all the complications and overhead of expanding. Part of my strength and peace of mind is that I do all the design and drafting so I know each job intimately"

This is exactly how I work. I figure I would need at least 3 employees to actually make more money, would have to get a real office, get out of my underwear and then all I would be doing is paperwork. Does not sound fun.

 

[canwesteng]

I'm always a proponent of hiring someone out of school or someone junior. Cheap, and they need the experience. Although I've never been in that position so what do I know.

 

[Archie264]

The trouble with the very-inexperienced is that they require training and that takes time. Initially they can be a net negative drain on resources. Sorry to be a net negative nattering nabob but it is worth keeping in mind.

 

[KootK]

@PengStruct: I stumbled upon this the other day: Link. Perhaps you'll find it useful for the pedestrian bridge part of the scope if you decide to go for it.

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

 

[Triangled]

Like XR250, I like lotsa clients and lotsa jobs, smaller jobs therefore, because, for me, the revenue stream is less dependent upon any one job or client.

 

[JLNJ]

Look at the fee and back out how many hours you are looking at. If it's a simple building, then maybe you can handle the production. A more complicated building can double or triple the number of drawings (even if the structural engineering calculations remain relatively simple). Chasing complicated geometry and helping the architect with building layout/detailing issues can be a huge drain on your limited resources.

Be realistic regarding the architect and his penchant to add degree of difficulty to your scope. Also be realistic about the fee. Most schools I've worked on have fairly tight design budgets. If the State-mandated fee is just 6.5%, it is un-possible for the structural engineer to get 2% (or even 1%).

Guys that do a lot of schools can crank them out. Can you compete with them? If so, then throw your hat in the ring.

 

[CBSE]

Drafter's for buildings over about 20,000 sqft are invaluable. I find I spend a lot of time just getting my foundation, floor, and roof plans created along with all of my section cuts. I take bluebeam and my pen and mark where I want details and have a local drafter create the details for me. She puts notes on the details and then I add and subtract as necessary. She has my library of details so it's pretty easy for me to label the detail number for her to pull from. Most of the custom work she will just do the line work for the detail and I will fill in the blanks.

The system works really well and gives you the ability to take on more work once you get it figured out. Drafter's are much cheaper than me too.