Software for Managing Line Lists 2

[CheMechanical]

My company has several facilities which have different standards for line numbering (and even competing systems in the same plant), but all of these are essentially on paper. Although it has been decided to keep these systems as they are, I would like to pull this information into a database management program which would allow me to make it easier to manage this information, including reserving blocks of numbers for new projects. Each system builds line IDs using line numbers, commodity codes, pipe spec codes, and insulation flags in various configurations.

Is anyone aware of any off-the-shelf software that can do this? I was not able to locate anything via a search. I absolutely don't want to ask our IT department to create a new application (that almost never ends well), and I want to avoid doing it manually in Excel except as a last resort.

Jerry Myers, P.E. (Chemical/Mechanical)
Senior Engineer

 

[pennpiper]

Reading your first paragraph it sounds like your need is centered on In-House projects of undetermined size. Is that true?

Most of the projects that need this type of record logging (Line List) are done by the Big Engineering Companies including projects that range from the very small to the very, very large "Mega-Projects" such as Refineries and Chemical complexes or multi unit Power Plants. The individual clients of each of these projects have there own preferences and criteria even for Line numbering and line data posting.
The Line List is a deliverable of the Piping Group on these projects and they need a tool that is flexible and yet not costly to modify and use.
Having spent most of my career in the Big Company environment I have found that the "Excel" format is the best tool for the purpose.
Give excel more consideration. You might also survey the people who will do the actual work and see what they have to say.

 

[CheMechanical]

Pennpiper, one of the reasons we have so many different systems is from E&C's developing their own standard for each new facility or major modification. We do many small upgrade and replacement projects and we want to assign line numbers to any new lines in a manner consistent with the existing system(s).

The problem with Excel is that I feel we need something more robust that prevents everyone and their brother from making their own changes to a master Excel file with no data protection. As I mentioned, Excel spreadsheets with a written procedure is our backup plan but I want more.

Specifically, I want a system that allows project engineers to reserve a block of numbers and to have some reporting capability to generate reports so someone can follow up on these reserved numbers to get the final info into the database or to release (or block out) unused numbers. I'd also like to be able to generate line lists on the fly with filtering by certain variables. Yes, this can be done in Excel, but not everyone knows how to do it. I've thought about assigning a gatekeeper but would prefer to allow the project engineers to have direct access to do the data entry work themselves. Also, it would be great if the system could automatically assign or identify the next available line number so it doesn't have to be done manually. (We just discovered today that one engineer overlooked a page and pulled about 50 duplicate numbers earlier this year and has to redo his entire line numbering for a large storage tank project.)

Finally, I actually am one of the people that is doing this work. Though I registered as a ChE, I am also a licensed ME in the mechanical group and deal with line lists often. I'm also the primary person for these lists in our group. I've been using Excel as my primary tool (for new line lists) for about 15 years and after dealing with the shortcomings, I think it's time for something better.

Jerry Myers, P.E. (Chemical/Mechanical)
Senior Engineer

 

[BigInch]

Penpiper is right IMO too. Excel is the way to go.

You don't want changes to the list? Use the simple password protection feature.

Its difficult to find anything more versitile, or robust than Excel, assuming you really mean user friendly, intuitive, low learning curve, ease of distributing the applications, easy to fix bugs...

Knock MS all you want, but you have to respect the work they put into Excel. What more could you want in a general purpose app?

We will design everything from now on using only S.I. units ... except for the pipe diameter. Unk. British engineer

 

[bernoullies123]

I would agree that moving away from excel would be the way to go. My suggestion would be to write your own database. If you are familiar with MS, then access will be a huge step up from the excel. Don't get me wrong, excel is always required for exporting and quick manipulation, but the relational aspects of line list are best suited to a database.

I have worked with many companies and have to concur that most use excel. While they have and pay for extremely expensive software, it just isn't utilized and the fall back of excel is used.

I have used VPRM, but the price tag is enormous. I did bit of a google and came across Puma5. Here is a screen shot of the line list management:

http://www.softscout.com/screenshot/Puma5/E6A2CA72631CC0A88525704B00771D76

But with all software, it is specially tailored based on the experience of the author. Of course your application will be slightly different and will cost you to make any changes to the software... this will go back to a database created by yourself. You can start small and continually develop. The benefits will pay off eventually. Good luck, and let us know if you do find a package that suits your specific needs.

 

[BigInch]

Excel and Access use the same Jet Database Engine.

We will design everything from now on using only S.I. units ... except for the pipe diameter. Unk. British engineer

 

[pennpiper]

bernoullies123,
You have shown a "shot" of a Menu driven input screen. What does the "Output" screen (and the print out)look like?

I saw this tried years ago (for another but similar task) and the person doing the input consistently missed inputting data because of the "menu" format of the input.
With the Excel the input screen and the output screen and the print-out all look the same (If there is a blank space, ask).

 

[simplemath2]

Jerry:

You may look into excel shared workbook function. Save excel in a shared drive and several people can work and save at the same time. I am using a excel like that not for line list but for project time log.

For user right control, you may need to use a procedure in VBA . I would think the procedure would gather the user name, unprotect a certain worksheet or unlock a defined range(s) for each sheet.

Regarding line # duplication, you may avoid it by using validation criteria.

 

[CheMechanical]

Thanks, Bernoullies. PUMA5 looks like it's overkill for what I am doing, but this is on the right track with regards to my request. 1

I'm fully aware of what Excel can do and have been programming in general since 1978. I'm hoping to find an existing application that fits my needs (even if it has more features than I need) before I spend my time developing a new database or Excel file. Been there, done that, last resort.

Based on my experience and the comments above, if I can't find commercial software, a database would probably be the way to go in my case. In addition to better data-entry validation control, I could even set it up to spit out line lists for specific projects on request (versus filtering in Excel) so we can use it as a tool during our projects, not just as a reference file to be updated at the end. (As much work as it is to develop my own database, it's still less painful and less work than trying to get IT to do it. Argh!)

Jerry Myers, P.E. (Chemical/Mechanical)
Senior Engineer

 

[BigInch]

Hope you find something you like.

If not, find somebody that can program Excel-VBA-Access.

We will design everything from now on using only S.I. units ... except for the pipe diameter. Unk. British engineer

 

[racookpe1978]

Unfortunately, your fingers (your knowledge!) are the best prescription against problems.

Get a programmer assistant. Part-time. YOU are too valuable to do the programming, but a "programmer" doesn't - AND WILL NEVER KNOW - the requirements for the project enough to do the job right.

In Excel, work flexibly but knowledgeably = that is, keep it simple but expandable.

LOCK the final database, but send it to people with "write-lock" in place over the output data section, but with an ability to input from the field corrections or additions. THIS PART your (part-time) programer should be able to do. (Did I mention a full-time programmer is too expensive and will cause your boss to push all the work back onto to you?)

ID nbr of each pipe needs to be unique, and most companies "try" to do this by a SYSTEM+DIA+SERIAL NUMBER combination ..... which is OK for a few days/months/weeks/years until changes take place. Then what used to be dies, and duplicates or wrong-pipe-diameters fall in place. Doesn't matter.

KEEP IT SIMPLE, but develop a "unique ID for every pipe" mentality.

Remember to add a "unique ID for every equipment" category too. Pretty soon, as soon as you are successful, the eqpt guru's are going to be using YOUR database as well - because your's is the only one that is up-to-date and working in the plant.

categories:
UNIQUE_ID_NBR;name(or label) = pipe-line-visible-number;Nom_Dia,Spec,System,Fluid,Pressure ?, Temp, Material (if not in spec), .... Valve_ID,

 

[CheMechanical]

Thanks racookpe1978, but paid help is not an option at this time. Practically speaking, unless anyone can identify an application that might work, my best short-term solution is an Excel spreadsheet with write protection for cells/rows for existing lines and a set of instructions to guide project engineers on how to add blank lines in the right locations, reserve line numbers for their projects, and how to use auto-filtering to generate line lists for their projects from the master list. I'll just have to make sure I monitor the file(s) and manually followup to make sure final line stats make it into the list. Maybe someday we can hire someone to create a database. It should be pretty easy to export the Excel data and pull it into a new database at that time.

As for equipment lists, that's a whole other area that needs attention; I'll turn my attention to those after I square away line lists. Also, the format for line lists is already set by precedent; I just need to ensure that we continue to follow the format for the particular facility and area.

Jerry Myers, P.E. (Chemical/Mechanical)
Senior Engineer