Software for Pressure Vessel Calcs

[zdas04]

I invented a vessel that I've been having fabricated at an local shop (New Mexico, U.S.). The fab shop has been doing the code calcs. I've been asked to send calcs specific to Australia by one client and China by another client. My local fab shop can't really do the country-specific calcs. I'm looking at buying a software package that I can put in "Australia", "U.K.", "China" etc and have it evaluate the design for the things that are extra or different for that country.

I looked at Intergraph's PV Elite and they say they can handle international requirements, but is this software usable and reliable (I'm waiting for a quote from them to see if it is even possible)? How about COMPRESS? Other programs?

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. Galileo Galilei, Italian Physicist

 

[JStephen]

My experience- dealing with just the good ol' USA- is if you don't understand the design code (or design methods) involved, then trying to use software to accomplish that design is not a substitute for that knowledge. Consequently, I would be very wary of using that approach to evaluate a vessel for an unfamiliar code in a foreign country.

Example: In the software I use, it'll require you to enter wind and seismic information from ASCE 7, etc. If you don't put anything in, no problem, it just doesn't do that analysis. Or if you put the wrong information in, no problem, the program doesn't care, it'll still churn out some results that look good.

 

[XL83NL]

What are the country-specific calcs or 'extra or different' things for those countires that need to be done? Wind/seismic loads, or other environmental loads?

 

[sharmass]

I have used this software (for ASME only). Its a good one

 

[zdas04]

I do think I have some familiarity the code and its intent. My problem is that I'm not confident that my roll your own calcs address all of the required considerations. I also don't want to purchase the Australian code only to find that I missed the key consideration in trying to extract what is different. Wall thickness calcs, Material properties, nozzle loading, wind loading, etc. is all reasonably straight forward for a vessel that has a "large" section made out of 16-inch pipe (the design intent is for all of the 16-inch pipe to be buried) with 5 ft of 8-inch pipe above ground, with 2-inch nozzles. You could certainly call this an ASME B31.8 "pipeline accessory", but my clients expect it to be code stamped.

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. Galileo Galilei, Italian Physicist

 

[sharmass]

I don't think that a software can answer all the questions. You should always have the book in your hand.

 

[gr2vessels]

None of the mentioned software is AS 1210 compliant, hence it is a waste of time trying to adapt the software to suit Australian requirements. Many things are now different from ASME and the easiest way is to hire a local Aussie third party certifier to verify the suitability of the equipment to AS 1210. You have to do it anyway for equipment registration, hence best to select upfront your certifier, send him a preliminary PV Elite calculation for his review. The reviewed and commented calculation is ready for the final PV Elite calculation, pre-approved compliant to AS 1210.
Design registration is some AU$70-80, 1500-3000 for third party certification depending on complexity.
Please note that the hydrotest pressure is different from ASME VIII-1, WRC 107 is not accepted but has been replaced with PG 5500 Annex G, some allowable stresses are different from ASME II-D, wind and seismic load calculations in Compress and PV Elite have not been updated for AS compliant calculation, etc.
Cheers,
gr2vessels

 

[dhengr]

David:
It looks like Gr2vessels just stole all my thunder, but here it is anyway. In fact, it looks like he might be the kind of guy you’re looking for.

I’ll bet that anyone who is selling that kind of software will try to sell you a different version for each different location and its code/stds., assuming they have a version which covers that code. I’ll bet there isn’t one version which covers all nation’s variations, with a simple click. I’d do the calcs. to our codes/stds., and state that at the start of the calcs. along with the other design criteria, and send that off for their approval. And, offer to prove (proof with additional calcs.) that the product meets or exceeds any exceptions they redlined. Either that, or send your calcs. to an associate in that country, who’s familiar with their stds., for his review and stamp. The science, engineering and the physical laws, which guide all our work, really don’t change that much from here to there. You know it works here, so that shouldn’t be the question. The few differences btwn. the codes will be hidden in distant, separate locations, and take you days to find, after you spend the money on that other code. Wouldn’t it be cost effective to try to get some direct engineering help from that country? Maybe some engineer who is already involved on that project, someone you’ve met during your involvement there.

 

[zdas04]

I got an e-mail a few minutes ago from a tech support guy at one of the software vendors recommending (instead of buying their software amazingly enough) a small engineering firm that does nothing but code calcs. So I spend a couple of grand with them, forward their calcs to a small firm in Brisbane paying them a couple of grand to add the AS1210 evaluation, and do the same in Shanghai, London, etc. I'm out $10-20k which is less than the price of the code books plus the high-end software I'm looking at (and I don't have to learn the software). I think that gr2vessels' idea works pretty darn well.

First step is getting a U.S. version built. Thanks for the help.

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. Galileo Galilei, Italian Physicist

 

[CyprienRusu]

I agree also with Gr2Vessels to the fact that hiring a local consultant will be much much better !

Just think about all the time you would need to learn one or different software that would do the design for those codes and you will understand that:

1- You will pay a lot of money for the software (lot of modules --> remark from dhengr)
2- You will invest a lot of time to learn the software (time is money too, hu~~)
3- You will still not be sure that you will get what you want (even if theoretically you should)

--> If you hire a local consultant, you will at the same time benefit from his experience and the 2nd time you may think again about investing into a software (If this will be a recurrent problem for your company, software may still be an option~~)

 

[coolniks37]

Hi..

I think China & Australia local jurisdiction allows installation of vessel designed to ASME BPVC..Just talk to your customer/his consultant and get it approved for ASME BPVC... Problem solved.