Solid Shelving within Storage Racks - ESFR

[Sdpaddler50]

I am new to this board, so i did a search and found a few things on this subject, but nothing appears to address my issue:

Situation; Double row racks >25 ft storage height, overall Group A plastics, cartoned. ESFR, ceiling only system.

In my previous life, I used the FM standards to define whether shelving in a racks was open or solid, and FM can be more stringent than local codes/NFPA.

In referring to the Cal Fire Code, Sec. 2308, 2010 Version: The magic number for solid shelving is >32 sq ft. Table 2308.3 (I attached this doc) then gives various transverse/long flue options, for racks. There is a sub note to the table: that basically says “3 in. transverse flues required every 10 ft. when ESFR used”. They make no mention of required long flues, however I will assume they also want 6 in long flues per the body of Table 2308.3. Ok, but lets say they hand stack product across the entire 10 ft wide, and in this case, 4 ft deep bay. I therefore end up with around 40 sq ft of shelf area (10 x 4ft). Or, even wider, if no long flue were provided. 40 sq ft is > 32 sq ft, but the fire code does not seem to address this.

So, the next step is on to NFPA 13 (I am using the 2010 Version), where we can normally find some more details. 39377 notes “shelves within racks with a surface area <=20 sq ft (or 50% open slats, which doesn’t apply to my hand stacking example here) is considered an open rack. This 20 sq ft rule is the usual standard most fire people follow. If I apply this, the 3 in. transverse flue every 10 ft. is not even close, because as I noted, I am at 40 sq ft shelve area.

Anyone else see these discrepancies’, or am I missing something here? Thanks for the input.

 

[sprinkler1000]

Hello Sdpaddler50:

Why would you apply a criteria for open rack when you do not have 50% or more open slats and your shelves are over 20 sq ft?. I believe from memory that FM requires even 70% open.

If you have solid shelves over 25 ft you can not apply ESFR.

I suggest checkin PunchDeck, they have slatted shelves FM approved. I believe solid shelving over 15 ft is not covered by the codes since there are no tests done.

Maybe I misundestood your post.

best regards

Srinkler1000

 

[Sdpaddler50]

Sprinkler1000, thanks for the reply, but I believe you misunderstood what I am trying to say, and i probably did not do a very good job in explaining myself - didnt want to write a book, so i am trying to explain this as succinctly as possible.

First of all, I see alot of people in our industry (consultants, insurance, ahj's) not ahdering to the guidelines of open shelving wihtin racks, and allowing ceiling only systems (ESFR) that do not have open shelving. We all know what will happen if a fire occurrs with ceiling only, and solid shelves -and its not good, especially if a wood roof is overhead.

My beef is with how the cal fire code is written. You have to read my post carefully, and then look at the attached doc, to see my concern. I dont believe the Cal Fire Code adequately defines this, and allows somewhat of a loop hole that can allow ESFR protection with solid shelves. My case rests on the following cal fire code statement “3 in. transverse flues required every 10 ft. when ESFR used”. I believe you can adhere to this, and still have solid shelves >20 sq ft (NFPA), and even 32 sq. ft. (Cal Fire Code)

Again, i may be missing something here, but that is how i read it.

 

[cdafd]

Cannot answer to the technicals, but yes they should start with cal fire code, but design to Nfpa 13

And if conflict the more stringent of the two applies

Thought cal fire was based on Nfpa ????

 

[sprinkler1000]

OK.
I am not familiar with the Cal Fire Code, so my reply was in the scope of NFPA 13.
I believe your case is solid shelf with storage over 25 ft and is not contemplated in NFPA 13.

best regards
SP1000

 

[cdafd]

I think you also have to throw in the listing of the head, and all the requirements from the listing that have to be met.

 

[stookeyfpe]

History lesson: That provision originated out of the 1991 Uniform Fire Code. It was written based on two NFPRF fire tests which occurred at about the time ESFR started becoming prolific. A series of fire tests for slatted shelves were performed in the mid 1990s by all the major retailers who validated that design. It was never intended for ESFR and in fact, one very large retailer who owns race cars and is based in a East Coast state with a coast line no longer uses slatted shelves.

If that section of the CFC drives you crazy, have fun with the table on flue spaces.

You still have 3.5 months to submit a code change that will be heard in Dallas next April to fix the provision you are concerned about. Here's the required Track B form:

http://www.iccsafe.org/cs/codes/Pages/publicforms.aspx

Good luck.

 

[Sdpaddler50]

Stookeyfpe, ok, makes sense now. The CFC data is incorrect. I can't tell you how many warehouses i have walked in, and told them they have solid shelves in their racks, and their $1M ESFR systems are basically useless unless they do something about their rack configuration. And to make it worse, other consultants in my area follow this CFC criteria, and are therefore giving poor advice. I will stay with the 20 sq ft max i have been using, as allowed by NFPA and be able to sleep at night. Thanks for the history lesson. I went to the code change link you gave me. If i can make some time, i would love to submit this. I will keep you posted if I do.

Cdafd, I agree with you that we must carefully adhere to the mfg listing of the head. But, you can do that during the design/build phase, and then have a tenant move in next week after the sprinkler system is done, and bring in their 30 ft rack storage of plastics with inadequate flues and solid shelving and think they are adequately protected by ESFR, when they are not. Part of my job is to get tenants/owners to maintain their flues, and ensure their racks are open to allow 1) heat to rise for quick head activation 2) prevent horizontal fire spread 3) allow the water to get down in to the flues, at the base of the rack while battling a potential 30 mph fire plume updraft. I was involved with a larger retailer who recently reconfigured 850K sq ft racks to accomplish this. It took over a year, and it was not fun at times, but they ended up doing an amazing job.

 

[Sdpaddler50]

Stookeyfpe, i downloaded the code change form, started to fill it out, and noticed this is for the IFC. I assume the CFC, is a different animal as far as the amendment process?

 

[Sdpaddler50]

I have been communicating with an engineer at ICC over the past few days. At this point, they agree that footnote "a", at the base of Table 2308.3 allowing ESFR ceiling only protection with only transverse flues on max 10 ft spacing, is not a good thing, and leads to a solid shelve issue within high pile, double row, storage racks. They want to review this more however, before they make their decision. Anyway, i have submitted the ICC, Track B, code change proposal to them, for their review. Two key things:
-Delete footnote "a".
-Change the IFC (and then hopefully the CFC will follow as well?), to max 20 sq ft solid shelving allowed within a rack when ESFR is used, to match up with NFPA 13. IFC currently notes 32 sq ft. as the max.