Sprinkler bracing 1

[PRinspector]

OK, I spend a whole hour and half looking for this and I was not able to find it(NFPA1 3). Here is what I'm looking for:

1. Threaded rod does it need a washer? ( I know it does but I want to make sure before I bring this up to installer).

2. Seismic brace screws does it need a washer?

3. Can you use a riser clamp in conjunction with a seismic bracing clamp?

4. Can you have an up- right head and pendent in the same branch line.

If you can provide reference I will be much appreciated.

 

[TravisMack]

1 - depends on hanger assembly. A standard fire protection pipe ring with beam clamp, concrete anchor or something like a sammy sidewinder will not need one

2 - Again, it depends on the assembly. If just a nut / washer through a bar joist, then of course. If you are using something like a Tolco 825, then no it does not.

3 - Is this a riser clamp, or is it a longitudinal brace pipe clamp like a Tolco 4A? They look very similar.

4 - Why would you not be able to. The old pipe schedules even had sizing scenarios for sprinklers above and below a ceiling. You can have upright, horizontal sidewall, pendents and/or vertical sidewall sprinklers on the same branch line.

Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC

http://www.mfpdesign.com

 

[PRinspector]

Travis,

I really appreciated your help and your knowledge. Let me clarify;

1. Is threaded rod straight up to the ceiling the rod has a nut anchoring the rod to the ceiling but not a washer. I know that the NFPA 13 in para 9.1.1.7.8 (and other places) specifically call for a washer but in that paragraph they are talking about trapeze. Nothing about the threaded rod.

2. They are not using tolco 825 they are using tolco 980. The washer that I'm refering is the one under the bolt that anchor the swivel brace to the building.

3. I don't think is the tolco 4A the ears in the clamp are much longer kind like tolco SP-69

4. I agred but in these case you have an 6 upright in a roll the 2 pendent and back to upright again.


PS if you use an adjustable band hanger (similar to tolco 2NFPA) how many treath should be showing through the bottom of the nut.

Again thanks for your help.

Lou

 

[TravisMack]

1 - Are they hanging directly to a ceiling? Or by ceiling, do you mean structural deck? If I can picture your issue correctly, I have never seen that installation without a washer. But, I may not be picturing it correctly. Any chance you could post some pics with what you are looking at?

2 - In general practice, I have never seen a 980 without a washer. Looking at the data sheet, it doesn't specifically say how to attach that to the structural member. You could always contact Tolco tech support and get their take.

3 - Unless the riser clamp is listed for sway brace use, then no way. Seismic bracing requires components listed for seismic assemblies.

4 - There is no issue with that scenario whatsoever.

5 - Per the data sheet, there is no requirement indicated.

Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC

http://www.mfpdesign.com

 

[cdafd]

Not near the book

But I thought I was taught once the rod is not part of the listing

 

[TravisMack]

Yeah..Rod is not part of the listing. I just meant that a riser clamp is not a listed sway brace component. I wouldn't use a riser clamp for sway bracing the riser.

Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC

http://www.mfpdesign.com

 

[PRinspector]

Thanks guys for all your help.
Is connected to the structural deck, just with the nut.

Lou

 

[Sdpaddler50]

I think the larger issues are:
-was the bracing properly designed and zone calcs used to verify the loads. In particular were the attachment points for the brace to structure adequate.
-is the lateral and long. Bracing provided where needed. 40, 80, etc.
-hangers secure, c clamps have retaining straps, etc.

I respect your question, but I sometimes find fire inspectors can get caught up with minor details. Key point, if your bracing is designed and installed properly, you are fine. My guess is, a missing washer, or a non listed part is not going to compromise the system.

 

[PRinspector]

SD50,

Thanks, for your answer. To tell you the true the plans does not show any installation details, of the bracing, calcs and not detail of the seismic bracing i.e angle and location ect. Lateral and long bracing were not within the distance specified in table 9.3.5, they had to be move to meet those requirements. There are some things that they are black and white in the code but other thinks that are not so clear to me sense I do not do sprinkler installation. But lately I have been notice that the installation procedures, at least in my area are suffering tremendously in the QA/QC department. I don't know if I'm getting caught up in minor details but if you let them use non listed parts I think that will compromise the integrity of the installation.

Again I appreciated you input and your knowledge.


regards
Lou