Standpipes / Bldg Code 1

[TravisMack]

Stookey and others, I need your opinion.

I am working on a bldg that is 14 stories above grade and 3 stories below grade in the Metro Phoenix area.

There are 3 stairwells in the building. 2 of them go from floor -3 to +14. The third goes from Floor -3 to +2. The life safety engineer is not including the 3rd stair in egress calculations. Does that stair need a standpipe in it? I figured it did, but the main engineer says it does not because the stair is a "non required" stair, or not being used in egress calculations. I thought that when the building triggered a standpipe, all of the stair shafts required standpipes?

Please help teach me here.

Travis

 

[cdafd]

good question code does say "required stairway"

Not sure what the engineer is saying by "not because the stair is a "non required" stair, or not being used in egress calculations."

the stairway may be required because of a number of reasons.

Have you approached the ahj to see what they say??

905.3.1 does say "through out"

not sure if you qualify for underground building 905.3.5

 

[TravisMack]

I am working with one of the larger national fire protection engineering firms on this one. The engineer at the office I am working with said to take it out of the stair. I just wanted some other opinions.

 

[cdafd]

it is a little hard without a set of plans to look at to make a good call. It seems for some reason the stairs would be required. Do you know if the eng firm has talked to the ahj and got thier blessing on the set up??

 

[TravisMack]

They have not checked with the AHJ, just going on his judgment at this point. The project is a hotel / condo with a very odd shape, so it is even hard to describe it any better. The west stair and east stair go full. The north stair is only -3 to +2. I don't want to misquote his exact rationale for eliminating the standpipe. But, it was along the lines of since the stairs were not needed for the egress calcs, that he didn't feel it needed the standpipe either.

I was always under the impression that once you pulled the trigger for standpipes, that they went in each exit stairwell. This particular stair does exit at the main level to the exterior of the building. It does not seem intuitive to me to remove this standpipe. But, I admit, I am a sprinkler guy and not overly experienced in the broader aspects of fire protection engineering, such as egress issues.

 

[stookeyfpe]

Travis

A) Is this the "W"?
B) Can this stair be used as part of the egress system? My question is different that is this stair required by the egress system?
C) Rolf something and associates? Or Shcirm who?

Travis, the real question is does the firefighters on Engines 1 and 8 (I think I know this building) know that the stairshaft is not a required stairshaft when they are hand packing 200 pounds of hose? Answer: No. Put the standpipe in and if you get crap let me know so I can call PFD and put this discussion to bed. In the overall scheme of things this kind of discussion is project chump change. And the firefighters on Engines 1, 2 and 8 still have no clue - but they darn sure want a standpipe fitting. Oh, and please interconnect them.

If the stairshaft is not a required component of the egress system, technically it is not required by the IFC. However I think my argument is pretty persuasive. It is like $2000 of pipe in a $60,000,000 project. Fairly insignifficant in the overall scheme.

 

[TravisMack]

It is not the BIG building you are thinking of, but a 14 story hotel in Tempe. That project however, is amazing. I believe it will be over 500' tall.

I think your statement about the FF wanting the standpipe fitting during a fire event is pretty powerful, and one I am going to use. I also agree that the cost of this standpipe is very small in the overall scheme.