Startup vs. Corporate Giant for first job 1

[JOJOMO]

I'm graduating w/ my master's in May in ME. I've been interviewing and currently have a offer in the midwest. I'm from the southeast and am in school down here. My offer is great money working for a big company. The job sounds fairly interesting, though similar day-in/day-out. Good lateral and vertical career options though. From what I've heard from others, this company has a reputation for paying their new engineers better than anyone else.

I interviewed w/ a local startup here last week. I think it went really well. I don't want to count my chickens before they hatch, so to speak, but the guy made it sound like I'd probably get an offer from them, though I've thought this before with nothing coming out of it. After talking about money, it'd probably be significantly less, say 10-15%. I really like the company and the work I'd do. It's automotive/suspension/vehicle dynamics sort of work. I spend a good bit of my free time learning about this stuff and posting/reading on this forum anyway. Why not get paid for it, right? Not too sure about advancement, but the line of work and experience sounds really great.

I'm from the area here (southeast), married with a wife making decent money here who would prefer to stay local, but willing to move. Both of our families are less than 2 hrs away. I'll start out making more than she does (significantly in the midwest and a little more locally). She is definitely employable anywhere. She's in employee benefits and knows her stuff.

Do you guys have any suggestions. I feel like it may be a little risky with the startup, but I believe in their products and see good potential for company growth. Although, job security and money/benefits/cost of living lean towards the midwest.

 

[MikeHalloran]

Startups need people who already know how to do a lot of things, including the stuff they don't teach in school.




Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[MintJulep]

First, you need to normalize the money against cost of living to get a real comparison.

Other than that, you seem to have a handle on all of the stuff to consider. You just need to figure out was is more important to you.

Just coming out of school, there is little risk to you working for a start-up. The worst case is they fold, and you need to look for a job again, but with some real-world experience now.

 

[MadMango]

Typically, start-up companies stretch their people thin, meaning you will wear several different hats during the day. Larger, established companies assign you a task, and you will do this and similar tasks for many years.

In a start-up, you may not have anyone to mentor you, and may be expected to mentor someone else. I think you would rather learn new skills. Start-ups may fail, while an established company should be stable employment, but there are no promises.

Also, consider the cultural shift from being in the SE and moving to the mid-West.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[IRstuff]

A startup may be a good place to really get a feel for what you want to do long-term, since there's usually a requirement to be multi-discipline in a start-up. Some people thrive on that, others prefer to be more narrowly focused.

A larger company tends to cultivate specialists, e.g., "subject-matter experts," although a few people are sometimes allowed to be more "jack-of-all-trades."

TTFN

 

[IRstuff]

Another thing, a startup is a GREAT learning experience. Everything is smaller and compressed, so if you pay attention, you can learn what to do, and more importantly, what NOT to do.

This will give you an excellent understanding of how a business is run, should you ever decide to start your own company.

Additionally, you're at the point where should the company go under, you're young enough to find another job relatively quickly.

TTFN

 

[Senselessticker]

This may offend some folks....but.....who wants to live in the midwest??? JohnJ, You've about said it all in your post. There is no right/wrong career path.

I started working with a new small company in the SE right out of college. It has been, and continues to be an exciting adventure. My job/career satisfaction is superb.

Your career choice greatly depends on you. The large company may be "considered" a safer career option (although I do not agree with this assumption). The amount of experience you recieve within your first few years at a small vs. large company is not really comparable. You can expect to do "real work" at a new company, and you will be very directly involved in the company's success (or failure).

If you want a paycheck, better dental, and more vacation...go with the giant size company. There is nothing wrong with giving yourself the illusion that you are playing it safe.

If you enjoy the unknown, and can handle some risk without stressing over it...go with the small company.

 

[MikeHalloran]

The startup may be a grand adventure, and you surely will learn a lot of ways to _not_ do a lot of things.

BUT

Startups are often started by people with little experience.

If they in turn hire people without experience, they are probably doomed. Most startups are doomed anyway, but if _nobody_ knows how to do _anything_, the odds get worse.


OTOH,

if nobody anywhere knows how to do what the startup is trying to do, it may succeed because it won't be limited by preconceived notions.

That's on the technical side. If the startup has no experience on the business side, it's doomed regardless.


On the other, other hand, you have a support system in place where you are, so if the startup tanks, you're not stuck in a strange town with no friends.




Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[ScottyUK]

I joined a start-up when I left university. Part of the reason was the UK job market at the time wasn't good and I was grateful for the job at all, but the period I spent there gave me a lot of insight into the other parts of a business that I wouldn't have been exposed to: face-to-face dealing with customers, placing orders directly to suppliers, designing products, working on the manufacturing line, field service, installation & commissioning, customer demonstrations, sweeping the floor, making deliveries, and so on. No big company would ever have exposed me to all that. The money was crap but the experience was priceless when the time came to swap jobs. I understood how a company functions as an entity, and also found that I could relate to people much better because at some point or other I had performed their role in that smaller company.

In summary, don't under-estimate the value of the things you will do in a start-up company which aren't in the job description when you are laying the foundation for your career. A year or two in a start-up will make you very employable. Just don't expect to get rich in those first years!


----------------------------------

Sometimes I only open my mouth to swap feet...

 

[JOJOMO]

Thanks to everyone for the advice.

It seems that everyone seems, more or less except for Mike H., to agree that I'd probably learn more about how businesses function as a whole with the smaller company. I'd agree based on what I saw while there.

I'm just a little insulted by Mike's first post seeing how he doesn't know much about me and my qualifications, though I think I understand what he's trying to say.

To address Mike's second post: if I mentioned the owner's name and the company he sold a few years back you'd know who they are and know they know the market they are in based on where I see you posting elsewhere on the sight.

I guess a startup may not be what I should call them. They are about 3 yrs old and have business with the military and make money now. They are exploring opportunities in other markets and I may be confused here, but I think they may have a "no compete" agreement with the business the owner sold a few yrs back that keeps them out of a certain business segment for another couple of yrs. They are, however, poised to be back once they can.

 

[atlas06]

If you want to know how a sweat shop operates, definitely join the start-up.
The other thing, people get the misconception that large firms are about specializing people in one thing and just do that for years (like the movie "modern times" by Charlie Chaplin), this is totally false, large firms offer a variety of projects and assignments that no small firm ever dreams of getting their hands on.
Do you think that te US government contracts out its space program such as Mars missions or the Manhattan project to a start-up?
In a large firm, in addition to money and benefits, you get to go to seminars, travel, belong to scientific organizations (all paid for), even have influence over the way business is done in your field.
And one day, when you want to change jobs, you will notice that coming out of a large firm, you will be considered easily by everyone, especially the other large firms, which is not the case if you come out of a small firm.

 

[rmw]

I started with the large firm and got exposed to a lot of different things. My next job was with a start up and when things got tough I got let go and the bosses nephew who had less education and experience got kept on. Oh well. Ironically, my degree and prior experience got me a job right away in a medium sized company in a technical job and the bosses nephew took notice of that and quit and went back to finish his schooling. The start up eventually failed all together. The big company is still one of the biggest out there, and the mid sized company is struggling to keep going on its umpteenth owner.

My experience with the big company is what got me the job I have right now and I didn't even mention the start up on my resume.

rmw

 

[IRstuff]

Sure, there are opportunities in large companies, but not always. Out of 150 engineers, less than 10 are multidisciplinary, and within EE, or ME, the engineers are relatively specialized. We have ONE thermal/structural analyst, out of about 20 MEs.

TTFN

 

[MikeHalloran]

For all I know, and for all you told us, you have zero experience. With zero experience, you would likely be a liability to a true startup, which also has zero experience.

A new/expanded operation by an old hand is not a true startup; it likely has the business side under control, and would not be dumb enough to hire a neophyte. So, apparently you do have some experience, or some skill valuable enough to offset lack thereof.

I apologize if any of my conjecture offended you; that was not my intent.

I think the central advantage of the typical large company is that they have the resources and can take the time to teach you their preferred way of doing things. There is some variation among large companies on what what ways are preferred, but all are at least internally consistent, and to some extent responsible for the company's success.

In a true startup, chaos reigns, and evolving a set of rules/ beliefs/ practices from scratch (as opposed to just stealing them by hiring experienced people) burns up money and time that are better used for other pursuits. Luckily, that's not what you face with the local option.





Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[JStephen]

When I was looking for work after I graduated, one professor told me "Don't every work for a small company! They can just disappear!" Well, a short time after that, Texas Instruments started laying off engineers. Meanwhile, the "small company" is still around 20 years later. You just never can tell.

 

[IRstuff]

Job security is no longer the norm for any company. That's just a matter of luck, these days. Downsizing and outsourcing are just two facts of life.

In one stretch, I've worked the same job for 9.5 years, but at 6 companies, A, which was bought by B, who also bought C, to which we were transferred, which was finally consolidated into B, but who then sold us to D, which has reorganized twice, since.

TTFN

 

[bvanhiel]

John.

I think the decision depends on what you want to do with your career. A big company can provide a good basis for the processes and techniques you'll use later. They may also provide the opportunity for continuing education (MS or MBA). A big company also looks good on a resume. The downside is that you'll probably feel like a cog in a big machine. Mostly because that's what you'll be.

Small companies are harder to characterize. You could find it to be a fantastic place to work, or it could be worse than a prison sentence. It depends heavily on who your coworkers and leaders are, and if the industry they are in is growing. The upside is that you'll likely have more power to influence the way things work.

Ideally, you'd work for a big company for a couple of years to see "how things are done" at that level. It will give you a standard to compare to later.

Job security in the classic sense is an illusion. If your big company is out in the middle of nowhere, without other employers nearby, then you could be screwed if they "reorganize" your division. The only real security is knowing the market for your skills. Medical benefits are also of little value at your age unless your about to start a family and have the wife stay home. I'd only be looking at the cash and 401k matching in comparing the positions from a compensation standpoint.

-b

 

[kchayfie]

From reading your post, I got the impression that you are much more enthusiastic about the start-up job than the big company. You've probably already made your decision but you might not realise it yet.

I think if you get the offer on the local job, you should take it. But I think you'll be happy at the mid-west job if that ends up being the only offer you get. Either way, as long as you don't spend the next few years wondering what if? you'll be doing the right thing.

 

[PMR06]

I can't comment on the changing city debate. That's another level of emotions entirely... especially with wives

As for the company choice: When I graduated, I chose to work for a small start-up company. It really does stretch you thin! I worked long hours for much less pay, but was exposed to a tremendous range of technical and business scenarios. After 2 years, I got tired of it and went to a large, international company.

I hated every minute of it! It was total "Office Space", and most of my coworkers couldn't engineer themselves out of a paper bag. I lasted 6 months and went back to the small company.

Since then I have continued to learn far more than I would have at the large firm. I passed the SE1 first try, and feel confident being faced with any number of structural issues. Not only am I growing, but the company is as well. And, eventually I will be eligible for partnership in the company.

In the end, I wouldn't think of where you want to be in 2 months time, but rather 2 decades time. If you want to have a career of 8 to 5, corporate engineering, then so be it. I have many friends very happy with that. However, if you envision yourself owning your own firm some day, you won't learn the secrets of small business anywhere other than at a small company.

Good luck either way!

 

[Demon3]

I once heard a lecture by a quite famous guy and he addressed exactly this issue. He said that he was once interviewed as part of a study to detemine why some peole who graduated top of the class became famous and some faded into obscurity. The outcome was that to have the best chance of success three factors were important:

1. Your first job. You should start in a large multonational company and stay there a maximum of 2 years

2. Your first boss

3. Your first project