Staying Up to Date with Building Codes... 3

[KevinChez]

I am going back and forth with a building department because I referenced a 2017 IRC Code.

They want it to say 2020. I usually just say "latest edition" but a plan examiner in another small NY town wanted it worded how he wanted it worded. So I carried it over and forgot it said 2017.

Anyways what is the best way to stay up to date? They are all online now so I don't buy hard copies.

And even the 2020 Code in New York uses the 2018 IRC so there are dates flying around everywhere.

I am going start saying IRC code, latest edition, as adopted by NY State.

thx.

 

[phamENG]

Searching for "code adoptions by state" gives (quarterly?) updated tables of which states have adopted which model codes.

Be careful, though. Some states do some interesting modifications. I got burned once because a state had added special wind areas that were not part of the original code, so jurisdictions could define minimum wind loads that exceeded the basic ASCE 7 maps. So it's always good to take a look at the edits to make sure they didn't do something that'll come back to haunt you later.

 

[dik]

From the front end of my project notes:

WORK AND LOADINGS SHALL BE IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE NATIONAL BUILDING CODE OF CANADA 2010 (NBCC) AND AS REVISED BY ['THE MANITOBA BUILDINGS AND MOBILE HOMES ACT (C.C.S.M c. B93), MR 118/214, REGULATION 31/2011' AS AMENDED (MBC) | 'THE UNIFORM BUILDING AND ACESSIBILITY STANDARDS REGULATIONS' AS AMENDED (SBC)]. THIS MODIFIED NBCC IS THE [MANITOBA BUILDING CODE (MBC) | SASKATCHEWAN BUILDING CODE (SBC).

REFERENCE OR COMPLIANCE WITH A STANDARD SHALL MEAN REFERENCE TO THE BUILDING CODE APPLICABLE EDITION OF THAT STANDARD AS WELL AS SUPPLEMENTS AND ALL DOCUMENTS REFERENCED THEREIN UNLESS REFERENCE TO A SPECIFIC DOCUMENT EDITION IS MADE

The latter part is the one for all CSA Standards... I only reference the Standard, and not the year of issue...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[JedClampett]

Maybe it's not a big deal for residential (IRC Code latest edition), but for industrial and commercial, I'd sure like to know what edition was used. I work on drawings that are many years old, and to try to track down the applicable code in 1995 is difficult. I just worked on a drawing set where the structural and architectural drawings referenced different building codes.
I understand why it's necessary, but it's unfortunate.

 

[dik]

It gets sillier... the plan examination dept in Winnipeg requires reference to the applicable edition... For the steel stuff I do, I use CSA S16-19 which is the 2019 edition... my notes for specific projects reference

-CSA S16-19 AND CSA S16-09 HAVE BEEN USED.

As an engineer, I was taught that we should be using the latest material... seems like our professional organisation doesn't agree.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[JStephen]

I try to confirm what jurisdiction the project is in, google their building department, and see what building codes they reference. Sometimes, they make this easy and obvious. Sometimes, you have to pull up an application for a building permit and see what it says, or search the local ordinances. Also check for local amendments- sometimes, they'll specify wind speed or snow load as just a flat number for the whole area. Some states have a statewide building code as well.

 

[TLHS]

dik, it's tricky too, because there's Canadian legal precedent that implies that if there's a safety related item in a new code and you don't use it, even if the legislated code in force is an older code, you could be liable. It's considered the standard of care, regardless.

 

[dik]

TLHS... I had heard about that... which brought me to the point where an engineer has to use the most recent data... even the professional association has its head up its... or its head in the sand... I'm not sure which.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[dik]

do you have a cite for that? I couldn't find one. I seem to recall a recent incident in BC where the building official was upheld by their professional association. Have to see if I can find both...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[MIStructE_IRE]

Honestly I can’t keep up. I’d need an entire admin dept to keep up with our ever changing codes on drainage, water supply, paving buildups etc. It seems engineering judgement is not allowed on simple things anymore. Everyone just wants to be a paper pusher now.

 

[canwesteng]

Why S16-09? Isn't S16-14 in force?

 

[jayrod12]

Why S16-09? Isn't S16-14 in force?

Oh because the local government here in their infinite wisdom decided to disband the provincial committee that evaluates the new codes and makes the appropriate amendments (i.e. creates the manitoba building code). They did this shortly after the release of the 2015 NBCC but prior to them enacting it in Manitoba.

The conservative government here is still pushing more job cuts and wage freezes, so if we're lucky we may have a committee put back together by the time the next building code comes out.

Anyway, due to this massive failure by the government in that regard, we here in Manitoba still have to design to the NBCC 2010 and all of the referenced standards. As dik noted, if you submit general notes referencing the most up to date CSA standards the AHJ in Winnipeg will reject the permit application until the general notes indicate the referenced standard instead of the most recent. I've found the AHJ in other areas of Manitoba are much more accommodating of using the most up to date standards, but we still must reference NBCC 2010 because that's what the current Manitoba Building Code references.

 

[dik]

They accept the manner in which I've defined it... even P! so far... I'm happy with the old code... and I don't want the CoW to get involved with seismic design... works fine the way this has been handled. There are no earthshattering differences between the two versions of S16... a little stuff with LTB and Beam-Columns, but both work...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[jayrod12]

Yeah in most parts I agree with not necessarily adopting the new code. One of the code provisions I would like is the obstruction snow load going from obstructions large than 0.8Ss/Cb to 3m. Removes snow buildup around a few more rooftop units at 3m than 1.9m.

 

[Craig_H]

Ugh, that Manitoba situation sounds ugly.

With our last update to the building code in Alberta, the government put together a nice powerpoint presentation that highlighted the recent changes. There's also a little faint grey line beside clauses that have been changed since the last revision. These combined helped me to get up to speed, but obviously did require some time investment. At least it counts as self-study CPD... There's also NBCC presentations online where the code writers explain individual changes to the national code, those are good value if you are digging into the "why" of a change.

Overall, I am not sure that it makes sense to let local jurisdictions make their own rules. Physics doesn't magically change across county lines, and neither does the propensity for fires, or for old ladies falling down stairs.

 

[dik]

It is ugly... from an entrenched building department that doesn't want to do its job to an inept govenrment... There are a couple of pubs that outline changes in S16... when I get a new code, I generally get a *.pdf of it and highlight and markup important items...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[canwesteng]

Craig... tell me about it. I live in Vancouver, can't believe the city is allowed to mess with it so much. Doesn't affect me, I work in industrial/mining. Sask used to be an engineers dream - the province would just send consultants a letter saying you don't need to do seismic analysis.

 

[Ingenuity]

This thread reminds me of TY Lin's dedication in his textbook Design of Prestressed Concrete Structures where he stated:

To engineers who, rather than blindly following the codes of practice, seek to apply the laws of nature.​

 

[skeletron]

There are changes in S16-09 vs. S16-14 that should be incorporated in new design. The unified block shear equation, for example, as well as Clause 27 (which has no effect in Manitoba), and the single angle capacities. I think it does become important to use the most recent code and stick to that method. There are instances where designers have cherry-picked clauses and the methodology actually does not follow the code intent.

I generally take the year off of my referenced standard or reference the standard+year in one place on the general notes. The other references just use the callsign w/o year. Lately, I have considered actually putting the year down on the standard that I own and can actually reference. This seems like a more transparent way of design for future checkers. But I can see how this would get your project flagged.

After acquiring 3 or 4 material standards within the last month, I can actually see how this is quite a financial and mental burden on designers. Anywhere from $50 to $250 a pop...jeez! Maybe those CSA yearly subscriptions are worth it, but I'm not a huge fan of the locked-down PDF.

 

[JLNJ]

Just look up the code currently enforced in the jurisdiction prior to beginning the project. Each State does it a little differently but it normally only takes a few minutes to search it up on the web.

Keeping abreast of the code changes and local amendments can be a little more challenging. And definitely look for those local amendments - the AHJ probably knows them well.