STEEL DETAILER

[Veer007]

As a Steel Detailer, I would like to know, What are the primary responsibility of steel detailer when details are missing?

Thanks in advance!!

 

[dik]

As part of doing a job well... add them, but not to the point where you are going 'out on a limb' for something the EOR should be providing.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[271828]

If you can't figure out what to do with a specific condition, then ask the EOR for clarification.

If you are almost sure what to do, do it and ask the EOR to verify.

If you are sure what to do, just do it. Ha.

 

[phamENG]

In the spirit of being a team player, I agree with 271828 and dik. In terms of actual responsibility, I'd say very little. It's the EOR's structure. If he/she hasn't conveyed the necessary information to produce an accurate fabrication detail, then you have every right to ask for more info before you do anything.

 

[skeletron]

Ask if it's not clear.
Make an effort if it seems like a minor missed detail, but flag it.
Paste a picture of the joint in an email...sometimes there is too much visualizing happening on the connection designer's brain that they forget about, say, a horizontal brace coming into your connection.

 

[r6155]

“Steel detailer” or “draftperson” ?
Detail is all complete details.
A Missing detail can be catastrophic. Torque value and lubrication of bolts, as example.

https://blog.draftsperson.net/shop-drawing-checking-guide/

Regards

 

[human909]

That sounds more like mechanical engineering than structural. Practices and terminology do differ from region to region, but where I am that isn't what a steel detailer does. In Australia a steel detailer is responsible for the preparation of steel workshop drawings. Member sizes and general connection details are give in the structural drawings, the steel detailer prepares shop drawings. Often a fair bit of the detail is left for the steel detailer to work out, hence the name. With complex connections the steel detailer is often more adept at finding workable solutions than many engineers. Though responsibility for checking the workshop drawings generally falls back on the structural engineer.

Veer007 what country/jurisdiction are you doing work for? From the contexts of his past posts Veer007 sounds like he lacks the support necessary and is seeking support elsewhere. Also I believe he might be drawings for different countries (Canada and Australia at least) which suggests to me he could be an overseas outsourced draftsperson rather than a 'local'. Veer007 please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, more context is important if you want good answers.

 

[Veer007]

Also I believe he might be drawings for different countries (Canada and Australia at least) which suggests to me he could be an overseas outsourced draftsperson rather than a 'local'

Yeah, you are almost correct, I have been working for AISC, CISC, AS-NZS standards for past 6 years and seeking info. that I couldn't ask EOR as drawings were mentioned as "connection to be delegated design", that's why I find support elsewhere

Thanks in advance!!

 

[DrZoidberWoop]

If a detail is missing, you should submit a Connection Design Question (CDQ), or company equivalent, to the design engineer or EOR, depending on who you are contractually obligated to report to. The company where I work does steel connection design and fabrication. We give the detailer some small amount of freedom for things like edge-plates/pours stops and deck support. Anything requiring calculations or an engineering stamp would NOT be handled by the detailer without consulting the design engineer. I don't write the contracts for this company (USA), but I know the procedures are typically in compliance with Chapter N of the AISC SCM and Section 4 of AISC's Code of Standard Practice for Steel Buildings and Bridges.

Depending on the governing engineering body in whatever country, it would be a bad idea to move forward unrestrained while somebody else's engineering licensure is on the line and depends on 1)you not making a mistake creating a detail and 2) them catching that detail in the hell that is shop drawing review.

TLDR: Send them an email and ask about it.

 

[dik]

Zeus... I do similar work, reviewing shop drawings and provide an engineering seal... I often come across unusual items and I put a note for 'The EOR to confirm...' and the problems 'go away'. Sometimes they want a resubmission with the items corrected as noted. The approval process is correct, but often too slow... on one project I was on, they needed fixes on site... and I used to send sketches as information only while the proper RFI could take two weeks to process through the dozen and a half persons for proper completion... The document controller acted as a bit of a buffer...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[cliff234]

Where is your building located? If it is in the U.S., then AISC 303-16 (the Code of Standard Practice) is clear on this with regard to connection details. If the EOR is not delegating connection design then the EOR must provide all connection details. If the EOR is delegating connection design, then it is the EOR’s responsibility, at a minimum, to provide concept connection details and reactions to be used by the fabricator’s connection design engineer and the detailer to develop the final details. If those details are not provided, send RFI’s asking for clarification. You don’t want to waste time guessing about details, only to have the EOR reject them because you are not a mind-reader.

If the details in question are not connection details, send RFI’s.

In the U.S., the EOR is ultimately responsible for the safe design of the entire structure – including connections, even when delegating connection design.

 

[human909]

Yeah, you are almost correct, I have been working for AISC, CISC, AS-NZS standards for past 6 years and seeking info. that I couldn't ask EOR as drawings were mentioned as "connection to be delegated design", that's why I find support elsewhere

And there in lies the problem. You/your company are taking on jobs with delegated connection design yet don't seem to have the inhouse capacity to perform suitable connection design.

It seems that nobody is taking responsibility for connection design and potentially judging by your previous posts this isn't the first time. Where I am from it is generally unheard of for structural engineers to formally "delegated connection design", detailers should be provided full connection details and if they are unsure then its an RFI to the engineer. In reality plenty of minor connections might not be specifically detailed by the engineer, but an experienced detailing office can often fill in the blanks appropriately. Regardless the responsible engineer(s) are required to check the detailing is reflected in the shop drawings and assembly drawings.

Can I ask what software you are using in your day to day work. It should give me a little bit more background. (Years ago I did steel detailing using Autodesk Inventor, not really the best tool for the job but effective in mixed mechanical and steel construction. I've also used Autodesk Advanced steel. Tekla is very common here but I haven't used that.)

 

[phamENG]

Veer - just because it's delegated design doesn't mean you can't send an RFI. To the contrary - if the EOR hasn't given you enough information to design the connection, then you have to ask for them. Now, some of the simple ones you shouldn't need anything but the loads - shear tabs, non-seismic moment connections. Simple braces will require working points. Seismic moment connections get a little tricky which is one of the reasons delegated connection design is nearly unheard of in high seismic areas. Just about any other kind of connection and the EOR should have provided at least some sort of detail showing how it needed to come together AND loading information to let you check everything. If any of that is missing, send an RFI.

 

[Veer007]

Can I ask what software you are using in your day to day work. It should give me a little bit more background. (Years ago I did steel detailing using Autodesk Inventor, not really the best tool for the job but effective in mixed mechanical and steel construction. I've also used Autodesk Advanced steel. Tekla is very common here but I haven't used that.)

I have been using Tekla structures for years

Thanks in advance!!

 

[Veer007]

Thank you. It makes sense

Thanks in advance!!