Steel Framed Balcony to House Attachment 1

[XR250]

Got a client who wants a deck to like this...

Y'all got any ideas on how I can attach the c-sections to the wall studs and keep water out? Any other ideas on attachments or anything in general? There is only a small section of floor framing in the house to access this the rest is in an area with 20 ft long, 2x8 studs.
The 2x6 decking will run perp. to the channels.

Thanks.

 

[WesternJeb]

Put a steel face plate on the face of brick to weld the channels to. Send 1" dia,. steel rods (or similar) thru the brick to some steel plate system on the wood studs and inject the holes with caulk/ epoxy.

This is what I see pretty commonly on premanufactured shade structures to help limit water leaks. Since this isn't a cantilevered deck it should work well. Note that you'll probably have to have two lines of anchors because *technically*, the brick can't take the bearing load.

 

[XR250]

Thanks. I was going to make the brick take the load regardless. The load is small.

 

[LittleInch]

Is that gap between the brick facade and the poly iso to stay?

Can the poly iso take any compression load?

An L shaped plate which has a small flat plate at the end to go trhough the brickwork might better able to seal, but is a lot more work to install. How do you get ot the stud? From the inside?

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[JAE]

I've never been comfortable bearing on brick veneer like that - and with your detail especially - showing a loose angle lintel below.

Brick lintels should be designed with very small deflections (TMS calls for L/600).
I know you say the load is small - but with an exterior deck you'd have some dead and live load there - maybe snow drifting if you are in that type of region.

Seems like devising a good connection detail to the studs would be a better and more "pure" structural detail.

 

[XR250]

This is getting closer....

This is all new construction BTW.

 

[JAE]

You might specify a gap around the channel section to insure independent movement between C4's and brick...maybe filled with sealant.

 

[kipfoot]

I'd say take the plate that you show and extend part of it outside through a vertical slot in the brick. Beef up the studs and plates as necessary.

 

[dik]

If a cold climate, then you have to worry about cold transfer and condensation.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[JAE]

dik - very good point.

 

[XR250]

@Dik. Central NC so not too cold usually. Would have to reach the dew point behind the polyiso. I imagine the wall cavity would be above that. The cold transfer is only in a few places so probably not much to worry about as far as energy usage.

@Kipfoot. I'm not sure I can sell the owner on that idea. He is pretty particular about aesthetics. But I will ask. Thanks for the idea.

 

[dik]

The steel will transfer through the polyiso... like it wasn't there. To prevent cold transfer, mount the plate across the studs with two threaded metal studs welded to it for nuts. If insul is for heat, then ignore the following. Have an end plate on the channel to accommodate the two threaded studs. Put a 1/2" thick Fabreeka STB-1 bearing insulator between the two to minimise thermal transfer.

As the others note, you shouldn't use brick veneer for bearing on.

Caulking to the steel and wall will last about 2 weeks.

Do you have an air barrier on the outside of the polyiso? The back edge of the Fabreeka plate can be located at this point to maintain the continuity of the air barrier.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[XR250]

I get that. But there has to be enough humidity in the wall cavity for condensation to occur. Painted sheetrock is a very effective air barrier.
I'll let the contractor weigh in. In my house (in the same area), I cantilevered an I-beam out to support an overhang. Never had any condensation issues (at least that I knew about LOL). It was tight to the sheetrock on the inside so I assume I would have seen some staining.

 

[dik]

Don't bet the farm on that... condensation works 24/7.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[lexpatrie]

Y'all got any ideas on how I can attach the c-sections to the wall studs and keep water out?

TLR - NO.

Via a note: Architect/General Contractor shall seal and flash penetration to prevent water ingress per code and workmanlike standards. If caulk or other temporary sealants are employed in that design, Arch/G.C. shall indicate a replacement schedule for these elements.

This kind of detail "leaks" but it's not your thing, your thing is structural life safety. Eventually if the water and rot get bad enough, the connection to the post will weaken or fail, but ... I would expect interior damage to the gypsum board below long before you develop life-safety issues here.

As the drawing shows a beam on the 'free' edge, it may be better to go with a ledger style attachment to the exterior wall.

It would be more conventional to stop the brick above the deck support on a ledger, weep holes, and flash, then have another run of brick below, which probably bears on the foundation below.

As far as feasibility of water-tightness of the original detail, this is a flashing nightmare from the construction defect standpoint. Water will tend to follow the bottom toe of the channel through the wall to the interior, wet the inside of the wall. (Again, under the normal standard of care, this is NOT our job). There's also the thermal transfer issue, this steel through the wall envelope is a heat pipeline, when the steel is cold in the floor/wall cavity, it may condense any water vapor into liquid and you have the "same" problem, water inside the wall. This condition is concealed so difficult to inspect over time and/or maintain, and somebody ELSE should come up with a better plan, i.e. the Arch. (thermal/condensation also NOT a normal element of the standard of care for structural engineering, Architects are the "master builders" after all).

As for a more normal connection, see the FAQ entry for Load-Tested Deck Ledger attachment (just born).

As it stands, however you decide to math out the connection as-is, just attach an email indicating that you're absolutely not on the hook for any element of water tightness, condensation, hidden decay, rot, deterioration related to water ingress, etc. PDF the email and copy in into your correspondence file in the project folder. I suppose one might consider adding such language to any written contract, if you do written contracts. e.g. "Your dumb idea that can't be effectively flashed or waterproofed is not my responsibility or fault, I do life safety. You agree to indemnify me for any such claims, with no dollar limit."

 

[JStructsteel]

For the loads, how about the Simson BVLZ and a angle then bolted to the wood ledger? Keeps any penetration thru the brick to a hole for the screw into the stud.

 

[XR250]

@JS

That'a an Idea. A little sketchy because I have no band in the wall framing as there is no floor system. I suppose I could add some blocking to simulate a band for the BLvZ to attach to. Blocking never gets installed well so I have that fear.