Stopping unqualified people from doing work (?) 1

[SylvestreW]

Someone from another group in my company asked to borrow a sound level meter (for the techies, a B&K type-1 logging SLM). I didn't have a problem letting them use it and enquired as to what the project was.

The person was going to do some mould sampling (their speciality) and as part of the inspection, was asked to take sound levels in the room. The report was going to a client.

Now, the person who asked to borrow the SLM knows nothing about noise (to the point he asked what decibels were). I mentioned that maybe someone should join him and take the measurements instead, since this information was going to form part of a report, and released to the public, and there's a risk involved in someone just putting numbers down without understanding what they mean.
(again, for the techies, NC or RC would be more appropriate here).

The response was "how hard is it to just measure levels and say 'the measured level in the room is ...'".

What do you say to that?

I was a bit concerned so enquired more about why the client wanted noise levels, what was to be measured etc etc but it turns out that the guy didn't know any of those details. His PM prepared the quote and simply instructed him to go out and measure. The PM was not available at all.

If it were something internal, I'd care less but seeing as we are in safety consulting, and clients hire us for our "expertise", should I have done more?

I just explained as best I could to the person what to measure (average Leq for 30 sec) and put some disclaimers in the report.

 

[Ashereng]

I don't know.

Maybe it would help if we take a step back and look at this from another perspective:

Let say I am that person, and what I am doing is taking a mold measurement (my specialty). Let say again that my PM is just curious as to what the sound level is in the room. So, I take a reading (how hard can it be). Since the sound reading isn't really part of the report, and was not asked by the client, it doesn't really matter then. Also, we're just goofing around with the B&K type-1 logging SLM because we know you have one.

Until you know more about what the other guy is doing, there is no real need to panic. Assuming the other guy is otherwise proficient, trustworthy and professional, I would usually give them the benefit of the doubt. Chances are, they are just playing with a new toy - haven't we all done that?

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[SylvestreW]

Unfortunately the client did ask for it specifically. And we've had the unit for years, and he's been around for as long. It's just this is the first time someone asked for mould and noise.

 

[TDAA]

Talk to the PM when available, explain your concerns, and see if you can debrief the guy who did the measurements. If the PM is concerned about your cost, do it as overhead. Perhaps he did it correctly (to your satisfaction) and you can help them write up the data so it is up to the company standard. If the readings are not good, then state that to the PM, and tell them they need to have it done correctly.

Just remember: "Is this good for the company?"

 

[pipehead]

I hope your company doesn't have the word engineers in their title or advertisments. If so, get a lawyer....

If the PM promised the work and is on a budget, he should just eat the cost to take someone along give the PM a lesson and mark the time to internal training. Once he see's all the switches and different averageing systems, he'll understand. If you really want to get his goat, put dead batteries in it and tell him he broke it...

Personally, I've borrowed the Garmin GPS to see how my cheapy one compared to the $5000 model. I'd never stamp a drawing with data I took unless I had several training classes.

 

[MedicineEng]

To answer your question:"
How to stop unqialified people from doing work"
Easy:
Get the sound meter back and tell him that you don't feel confortable to borrow this to him unless his PM comes to talk with you.

 

[greenone]

We do take sound measurements as part of our safety consulting business-if a client wants a written report, we use dosimeters and compare results against OSHA PELSs. If they just want an idea of their general levels, we will take the direct read meter and give them an idea if they are nearing the OSHA threshold, but it would not be a written report, as so many factors can influence the results. I think you need to make the point to the PM that unless the tech is trained to use the equipment properly, including documentation of the survey, the results are useless.

 

[Ashereng]

In that case, maybe you do have a problem.

I guess you need to bring it up with the PM.



"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[SomptingGuy]

One question: What qualification do you need before you are allowed to wave an SLM around? I would have said "experience".

 

[Ashereng]

SomptingGuy,

I would say proper knowledge.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[FACS]

Any reason you didn't offer to help?

Charlie

http://www.facsco.com

 

[SylvestreW]

I did offer, was told "how hard can it be" etc.
The PM is ignoring calls and out of the office for the last few days.
Training to use the machine isn't that tough, but understanding what is being measured isn't that easy I offered to help on that but their deadline was in 2 days and I was occupied those two days. I offered a junior to help (for free!) and they still said no.

 

[MedicineEng]

If PM is not available, or "too busy" to return your calls, escalate the problem. Remember, a problem with authorities or clients is not a problem from this or that person, is a problem of ALL organization.

 

[plasgears]

I worked in a company in which sales dominated over engineering. One dumb sales person pretended to be able to engineer gearmotors and select motors to drive applications. I set him straight and informed his boss about it.

This same sales person was picking my brain about how to improve BBQ safety features, not once but on several occasions. I even made design sketches for him. I found out later that he received BBQ's from this 'customer' in exchange for free engineering advice at my expense. This was reported to his boss, but I believe his boss received a complimentary BBQ also. I didn't have the benefit of working with an existing BBQ set. SOB!

 

[SylvestreW]

Update.
Turns out the client was completely taking advantage of the mould people. As a follow-up, the PM spoke with the client, who proceeded to ask if he can get RC values for each room as well as Articulation Index(sp?).
The PM proceeded to explain that they agreed only to provide sound levels in the room and that's all they would be providing. Right now there's discussion between the client and PM (but that's not my concern) as to what were the deliverables.

Personally, the client's somewhat sleezy for taking advantage of someone's lack of knowledge. But on the other hand, the PM should not have simply said "yes, we can do it" without actually understanding what was required.

 

[Ashereng]

SylvestreW,

Yup. The PM needs to know his/her own limitation. If the PM goes ahead and agrees to something - well, it's really not the client's fault.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[GregLocock]

As an aside, AI and RC are perfectly sensible tests, but RC in particular is not just a case of pressing a button and writing the answer down.



Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.