Switching to Catia. 2

[ajack1]

We are a very small contract design company in the UK whose main source of work is large press tools, almost executively for the automotive industry.

We have fairly recently secured contracts with a very large multinational company, however due to a change in the company it looks like we will have to buy Catia if we wish to continue working for them.

We currently use Visi-Vero and that works well for our current customer base, who mostly use Vero or Delcam, so the change would mean having two systems rather than an either or and the extra costs involved.

Everyone in the company is fairly highly skilled in 3D modelling and surface modelling so that is not a problem. We had a reseller in to give a demo and he really struggled to do things that we consider very simple, this was of course worrying, however that was probably more to do with him than the system. I would not feel confident with this guy as our technical support, but we could look at other resellers.

As I said we are very small and budgets are tight so we would probably initially look at two seats of Catia express.

So has anyone on here made the switch from a “mid price system” to Catia, especially express, what are the pitfalls I should look out for and how long does it take to really get up to speed?

Sorry to ramble on but just trying to give the full picture, any comments would be appreciated.

 

[PeterGuy]

What level of surfacing do you need the surfacing in the CATIA express base configuration is quite limited and not all the limitations a obvious just by looking at which buttons are available. That said you do get a good spread of CATIA functionality for a good price including a SmarTeam license.

For those others who may whish to comment the base CATIA Express (CAT config) has a similar level of modeling functionality as an MD1 but includes the P2 V4 integration KE1 KT1 ST1 CD1 TDM

To make it equivilent to an MD2 you need CAT + MCE which is basically the P2 core modeling (PDG,GS1,ASD) but also includeds FM1 functional moulded part

To make it equivilent to a HD2 you need CAT + MCE + HDX which contains advanced surfacing GSD and FS1

I work with a former employee of visi and as far as I know he has not found anything he could do on visi that is not available in CATIA and then some. However, we have all the licenses available to us.

 

[tbuelna]

As PeterGuy suggests, you will likely want two licenses of the CATIA base express package, and you may be able to get by with one floating license of GSD (Generative Surface Design). You will also want a STEP translator, but I don't remember if that is included in the CATIA express base license.

Where I work we just transitioned from Solidworks to CATIA V5. I was a long time CATIA user, so I was quite happy with transition. CATIA V5 is one of the more tedious systems to learn, but once up to speed on it you will see that it is a much superior system to anything else out there. Most large OEM's in the automotive and aerospace industries use CATIA, and now make it a requirement to their suppliers.

Regarding your statement "we are very small and budgets are tight", it looks like your company made the same mistake that every one else does. They think that they are saving money by buying a CAD system that is maybe 60% the cost of CATIA. The reality is that the lower priced CAD system will have far less capability. And the total amount of money saved is equal to about 1-1/2 months of your salary. Spend a little bit extra and buy the best.

As far as support goes, the licensing used to be handled by IBM, which was terrible. It is now handled by the reseller, which is much better (depending on who your reseller is).

 

[solid7]

As far as support goes, the licensing used to be handled by IBM, which was terrible. It is now handled by the reseller, which is much better (depending on who your reseller is).

Actually, that's not altogether true. As of this year, the 2 business models are available to the customer. Not all VARs support the reseller model, but the IBM option IS still available to anyone who wants it. And, as far as I know, IBM is still the main keycenter. (but what their level of participation is, I am still unsure of) The only catch is, if you have already been on board with IBM, you have to purchase new products before you can move existing support to a VAR based support model. There are pros and cons to both methods, but I couldn't be more pleased than to be able to get away from IBM.

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[ajack1]

Thanks for the information, I will look further into what PeterGuy says, it is not easy to tell exactly what you need when you do not know the system and not many sales people tell you what you are buying will not do.

Tbeulna, all the data we get in originated in Catia we can read it in fine. The problem is that it does not map out well into Catia, products, parts etc, this is only a problem to one customer, however they have the potential to be our biggest customer by some distance.

The company is less than 18 months old and was formed when I and my partner were made redundant, we got a great deal from our current software reseller, license only, so it came in at about 8% of the price of buying Catia for a system we were fully up to speed on and we could hit the ground running. I am not sure this was a mistake as we have continued to grow. We have no issues with our current software.

I do not doubt for one minute that Catia is a superior product, but I am concerned that in the words of tbeula it is a tedious system to learn and will be an extra cost. Still no information about the time scale to get up to speed on it.

As I see it we have three options, lose this new customer and carry on as we are, buy Catia and drop Vero keep the new customer and lose all other customers over a period of time, or buy both systems which would add to overheads and fragment the company but allow us to keep all parties happy. I am still unsure.

Please keep the replies coming.

 

[PeterGuy]

In my experience as a DS certified trainer I would expect a new user to be useful, but slow after a foundation course. getting to grips with after a week of use, happy and reasnobly speedy after a month, experienced after 3 months.

This of course will depend upon the trainee, trainee's experience/aptitude (some experience is useful other can be a hinderance), the quality of the training and trainer. The amount of hands on time directly after training, the complexity of the work they are expected to produce.

 

[solid7]

As I see it we have three options, lose this new customer and carry on as we are, buy Catia and drop Vero keep the new customer and lose all other customers over a period of time, or buy both systems which would add to overheads and fragment the company but allow us to keep all parties happy. I am still unsure.

You are taking a HUGE risk if you buy Catia just for one customer. We have a policy in our company - "do one thing, and do it well". For that, we have chosen to be a Catia ONLY company. We have seats of other software, but we don't actively advertise their use. Why? Simply, because we don't know how to use them well, and have no interest in knowing. We are consistently profitable, because we stick to our core competencies.

I built our company around my fundamental knowledge of Catia. So, from a business owner's standpoint, my advice would be to choose one or the other, and the stick with it. I have seen many businesses that could have been profitable, fail to be so because they tried to do too much.

That being said, what the heck is Vero?

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[CATPart]

Vero-software.com is producer of CAD/CAM package called VISI, known for
good CAM and dedicated mould design module.

 

[tbuelna]

PeterGuy,

It's not just getting up to speed with the solid modeling basics in CATIA V5. You must also learn the peripheral applications like SmarTeam or Enovia, FTA, etc.

ajack1 is working in the automotive industry. But for example, if you're a supplier to Boeing on one of their more recent programs, you will be required to deliver a data set that is compatible with their PDM environment. That usually means Model Based Definition. So you will also need to be proficient with CATIA applications like FTA.

CATIA is rapidly becoming a standard in most industries, so I strongly feel that it is a worthwile investment (for any business) to transition to CATIA as soon as practical.

 

[solid7]

CATIA is rapidly becoming a standard in most industries, so I strongly feel that it is a worthwile investment (for any business) to transition to CATIA as soon as practical.

That's a bit of an ambitious statement. Business case should always dictate a Catia transition. And Catia is not exactly taking over the world, so I see no imminent rush for everyone to get on board. (in fact, they may even be losing market share to UG in the auto world - keep an eye on Chrysler, BMW, and possibly Ford)

A business should lay their foundation around their customer base and core competecies - not reaction to the rest of the world around them. If it's a customer requirement to get Catia - or any software - a smart business will find ways to make the customer pay (at least partially) for it. Even easier, if you fill a niche, or are a single source supplier.

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[PeterGuy]

I am well aware of Boeing FTA requirements and for that matter the requirements of most of the major oem's. But there is only so many things you can mention in a reply without it obscuring the answer to the original question.

 

[rossly]

Solid7,

Off topic but your comment on keeping an eye on other OEM's, Chrysler, BMW and Ford. I thought that V5 is the direction for Chrysler and Ford, as for BMW, I don't know.

 

[solid7]

rossly -

1) Chrysler is on the auction block. I have heard that any move may also entail a switch to UG.

2) Ford - still uncertain. UG (I-deas) would like to have back that account. From what I've heard, nothing is final on the Catia V5, just yet.

3) BMW - I have a friend who offered me a job last year in Germany for BMW, doing something related to Catia V5 -> UG data migration. I didn't take the job, so I don't know all of the particulars. From what I gathered, they were moving away from Catia. Surely someone around here knows more about that.

UG is really the popular software in automotive, just as Catia is the popular software for aerospace. (minus military, of course) I think that there is a big push to get it made the auto standard. Especially with the things that UG has been doing with the parasolid kernel and interoperability. It looks as if they are trying to seamlessly unite both OEM and small supplier... (through different products)

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