Take a day off after attending a conference 5

[petkammi]

I was supposed to do market research in a particular field and attend any conferences related to that field. After good research found that a conference was held in Very-Nice city. Got permission from the manager to attend it.

Later I thought, going so far anyways, why not take the friday off and go sight seeing over the weekend in this Very-Nice city (ofcourse, spending from my own pocket). Got permission to take a day off. But when I said that I was going to spend the day in Very-Nice city, he said that it could be unethical and would need the VP's permission!

Respected professionals, please help me as I am a budding engineer and want to be in the ethically strong group. I am thinking very hard to see how my situation could be unethical. Could anyone please shed some light.

 

[TheTick]

I've done this twice before with employer's blessing. I paid my own way for my days off. My employer adjusted the air travel itinerary accordingly. No extra cost incurred on part of my employer.

I don't see what's unethical about it.

 

[nate2003]

There is nothing wrong with your spending extra time in a city on the companies airfare. My company has no problem with employees spending personal time on trips as long as the extra expenses are on the employee and not the company. My company also allows spouses to travel if the employee pays the extra cost. My company management see that as a little extra perk that costs them nothing extra, so why should they care?

 

[DReimer]

I don't see anything remotely unethical about that, provided that any expenses (hotel, meals, etc.) that you incur on your own time are paid for by you.

I suspect the manager is more worried about the perception among others at the company that you are getting a company-paid mini-vacation, and he would rather the VP have to answer the question should it come up.

This kind of stuff happens all the time at conferences. Just about anyone will take advantage of free airfare to visit a new city for the cost of an extra night's hotel stay. Nothing wrong with it at all.

Dean

 

[IRstuff]

Don't forget to close out the rental car charges and put the car onto your own expenses at the end of the conference. Note that your company's travel insurance might not cover you on your own time.

TTFN

 

[davidbeach]

And some times you can lucky enough that the airfare for the longer stay is less than for the sorter stay by a significant amount. I went to Washington DC for some meetings last summer and found that flying in on Saturday was about $200 less than flying in on Sunday. So I had a day to see the sights and the company saved money. What's not to like?

 

[ARenko]

That's true davidbeach. I went to NYC for a week and was planning to come home on Friday. It was $700 cheaper to come home on Sunday, so I spent the weekend there. Company picked up the expenses because they were still saving money and they're the ones who suggested I stay.

I also had my company fly me back through Italy on my way home from Thailand so I could meet my wife/ kids for vacation. They didn't have a problem with it and I even managed to save them $1k over the "normal" airfare.

 

[HgTX]

I work for a government agency, which is pretty fussy about ethics (so for example, at my next conference I won't be able to go with all the other boys and girls to a corporate-sponsored ballgame). But I combine work with vacation all the time--and in fact our travel regulations address the case of renting a car that would be used on some days for work and on some days for personal use.

Getting travel expenses paid to a one-day conference and taking a week's vacation might raise some eyebrows. Going to a few days of conference and sticking around for an extra day should be no problem whatsoever.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376

 

[DaveVikingPE]

As long as you're footing the bill for the mini-vacation - and that includes using one of your vacation/paid-time-off days, then there's nothing unethical about it.

 

[TheTick]

so...

Go to the VP and get the permission. Chances are VP will get a chuckle at your boss's expense. I'm sure he/she has done the same thing before as well.

 

[Ashereng]

I think the concern is the liability to the company during your "vacation" day. For example, what if you got hurt? Is that on "company time" or your "off work" time? That can be tricky in a situation like a conference. At a major company that I worked at, the entire time I was at the conference, I was covered under the company's policy as actively working - even when going to a movie after the conference. Because they sent me there, I was covered, until they got me back.

However, this is not an ethics issue - it is an issue of who pays in regards to insurance, liability, etc.

If this is not the issue, then I agree, there are no problems. Close our your rental the one you are using during your working conference, and rent one just for you for your vacation. Your air fare should be covered, but you should need to pay separate for food and lodging, etc.

Then again, maybe your boss interpreted your request as a "paid vacation"? In which case, he will need the VP to okay something like that. That would be sweet!

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[casseopeia]

I don't think it's at all unethical! Staying over a Saturday night usually results in less airfare which can more than cover the additional hotel and car. If you cover charges above and beyond what the company was going to pay, then no problem whatsoever. Your bosses are unenlightened tightwads!

When I was an employer, I used to pay for 1 or 2 additional hotel days and car rental for employees who wanted to stay and see the sights. It made for happier people. I saw it as a trade off for taking people away from thier homes, hobbies and family.

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

 

[GregLocock]

I think HgTx got near the mark. There is an actual benefit to the employee derived from using company resources.

Also

For instance, supposing an employee has a choice between going to the BEST conference work wise, in Scum City, or a vaguely relevant conference, in Nice Place.

Does the employee talk up the benefits of vaguely relevant conference?




Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[zdas04]

One other potential benefit I've frequently found is that a full week on a rental car can be less expensive than 5 days, and have found that adding the full-week rate, the over-Saturday air fare, and the odd hotel discount that if I paid for my own meals on the extra days the company saved money by my going to see Micky since I was already in the neighorhood.

David

 

[HVACctrl]

I don't see any ethics issues as long as you stay ethical. Not directed at you, but I am so sick of the things that are supposed to make engineers more professional (ie, our code of ethics) actually holding us back from enjoying life and work a little.

Would a salesman or marketing guy get second-guessed for it? Heck with that. Enough badgering engineers for enjoying a little perk. Enough double standard BS.

Ed

 

[waross]

If management has a problem with it, do it at your own risk. If management has a more enlightened attitude, enjoy.
It is probably best to ask in any case. If the company policy is not clear and you take a day extra without full disclosure and permission it may be amunition for office politics.
respectfully

 

[petkammi]

Thank you all..

To Greg Locock posting, I wanted to go to the one in Scum-City, but that one got cancelled. So it was my manager who suggested me to go to the Nice-City.

I was actually thinking of returning the car/ signing out of hotel and starting off with new set of hotel/ cars just to stay clean and clear. Just the air tickets would be company's....

He is a good guy, my Manager. Dont know why he used "unthecial". I just got a little shocked and hurt when he said that, as I would not let anything remotely unethical come to my mind. I will probably let it go and let him win. I will stay clear from being noted as the "person who wanted a day-off at Nice City"

 

[IRstuff]

Please reconsider.

Some of my most memorable adventures occurred on side trips. These are oppportunities should not be missed.


TTFN

 

[GregLocock]

Hang on, I don't want to sound like Mr Goodie Two Shoes here, I bend the company regs like any other human being. I was just suggesting WHY your manager might have raised a metaphorical eyebrow.

Learning to manage your manager is an important skill.





Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[jmw]

Good last post Greg.

I have found that the best way to get what you want is for management to want you to do it for their own reasons and most conferences are organised with just that in mind.
Take a look at the timings.

The trick is to look like you don't want to be there a moment longer than necessary and by making a few delays which take you into the "late booking" zone when regular airfares look enormous compared to the "weekend stopovers". His big concern then is if you want to have time off in lieu for the "weekend away on business".

Saying "Gee, can I stay an extra day and take it out of my holiday" is asking for trouble and costs; they'll have an FBI forensic finance team examine your expenses.

I have spent many memorable weekends in St Petersburg, Moscow, Houston (yes, Houston, it ain't home) Copenhagen, Talin etc etc. simply because of the Hotel deals that consider a Friday as part of the weekend and you get the whole week for a much lower rate.
Staying into the weekend can "save the company enough money" that they'll pay for anything within reason including entry tickets to the Space Centre, guided tours of the Aurora, a visit to Pravda's offices or Mickey's place... this is where time-off-in-lieu queries come in handy (you'll get the "it goes with the territory" speech, but it keeps them honest).

The downside is occassionaly having to go somewhere you'd rather not for longer than you want.

Some general rules:
If attending a conference in a ski resort either don't go yourself or do take the wife, whatever it costs you (travel... hotels usually have double occupancy for the same price).
One guy I know told his wife she couldn't come and he wasn't going skiing because he had too much to do.
She wasn't happy.
Day two and he got bored, went skiing and broke a leg. He had to leave the car, fly back and she wouldn't meet him at the airport. When he got home, the locks were changed.

Take care how you inform the wife if you get delayed. I was glad to have a large continent and a big ocean between myself and the significant other when I rang to explain a travel delay. One colleague e-mailed his wife from the airport... safe, but we never heard the delayed reaction outcome.
My other colleague finally phoned his wife from reception at the hotel in Minneapolis St Paul, where we finally arrived at 11:30pm.
Unfortunately just as he was explaining that we had been delayed by weather, a hen party let out from the bar ... she could hear the "loud girly squeals" over the phone and we could all hear the click as she hung up on him.

Always make sure your boss knows/remembers who is doing who a favour. Learn to act unhappy about not being at home with the wife over the weekend (to her and to your boss, but don't overdo it, the boss might cancel and the wife might want to come).

Before feeling too guilty, take a look at how many of the management manage to get to some fancy confernces with their wives or take business trips to exotic places and delegate the armpit trips to subordinates.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com