Tech. Gathering Data for a PE

[XR250]

I'm remotely involved in a job where a foundation company has given a huge estimate to an elderly woman for underpinning and rot repair. The estimate seems ridiculously high. She has already signed the contract. The foundation company hired an out-of-state firm to do the review. They are basically 2,500 miles away. Looks like they have a local "tech" who gathered the data for the report which is sealed by the distant PE.
Does this constitute "responsible charge"?

 

[jhnblgr]

Is the engineer licensed in that state?
I would say a repo is different than plans unless they are included in the report. For the work under their scope I would say they are the engineer in charge. Underpinning is a nightmare on residential. Seems like an ethical issue if the engineer is hired by the contractor and not the owner.

 

[GregLocock]

We got a ballpark figure of USD35k for underpinning a 40 yo house.

 

[XR250]

Is the engineer licensed in that state?

Yes, 48 states in fact

 

[phamENG]

That's a tough one. NC G.S. 89C defines responsible charge as:

(10) Responsible charge. - Direct control and personal supervision, either of engineering work or of land surveying, as the case may be.

This definition is just vague enough that people can get away with a lot. I'd check on the engineer's business. Are they licensed in NC? If so, and this tech is located in and working out of NC, do they have a PE present at that location? That may not be enough, though. With the increase in remote work over the past several years, some states softened those rules to facilitate it. Florida, for instance, has a clause about how an engineer can be in responsible charge but not be physically present. Not sure about NC.

 

[XR250]

Def. no PE in the state but they are licensed.
They are licensed in 48 states. I actually think they are ex-military and they use ex-military folks in the states to do the leg work for them.
Great business model if it is legal.
Unfortunately, the foundation company is a bunch of crooks and are ripping off this customer.

 

[EngrPaper]

My thought is generally yes it can be. It is quite common for the field work to be done by techs, designers, or other surveyors for projects of varying size. As long as the proper field work is done (usually at the request of the EOR to get x, y, z datapoints especially) and the raw data is reviewed/interpreted by the EOR, it should be sufficient.

Now I think the crux of it comes in the ability to do a review. Is a sketch sufficient? A picture? A 3D scan? Different scopes require different data fidelity. The mere fact of distance between the engineer and the site is not the problem. For instance, for me personally I would not stamp something off someone else's sketch. I know some great designers but I just wouldn't be able to sleep with it. A 3D scan though? Yeah I am not going to be more accurate than that by virtue of standing there.

 

[phamENG]

@XR250 How long ago did they sign the contract? They should have 3 days to cancel without penalty or cause.

 

[XR250]

Apparently they already started the work...
This is how they left it overnite with the house still occupied..

 

[jhnblgr]

Most states require a business to be registered to practice unless they are sole proprietors. It’s just a form that they pay for but without it your business cannot operate in that state.

 

[XR250]

The business is registered in this state.

 

[gte447f]

XR250, do you disagree with the engineer's assessment and/or the contracted scope of of the repairs, or just the price tag?

If you are looking for ways to stop work/exit contract, did the contractor pull a permit? If this jurisdiction utilizes the IRC, then this work should require a permit.

Did the owner contact/hire you for a second opinion?

 

[gte447f]

XR250, I realized I didn't even try to answer your OP question. Under the responsible charge rules that I am most familiar with, I think one can still maintain responsible charge while sending a tech (from any distance) to gather information.