driftLimiter
Structural
These Arch's are in for a treat
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Terry Malone for Arch's 4
- Thread starter driftLimiter
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These Arch's are in for a treat
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At least it's not another embodied energy sustainability green CLT etc. Met Terry some years ago, very personable. I feel like he tries to accomplish so much with one slide, sometimes though.
The people one would really want to reach, however, are the "program" people for the Hotel prototypes. They seem to think anything involving gravity is optional.
The people one would really want to reach, however, are the "program" people for the Hotel prototypes. They seem to think anything involving gravity is optional.
milkshakelake
Structural
I can't imagine Terry Malone teaching this stuff to an architect. He's very technical. Maybe there's a side to him that can simplify things.
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On the contrary, if architect's get a taste for how complex this stuff can be, they might have a better appreciation for the hoops we all have to jump through these days. I hope he hammers them over the head with offsets and transfer diaphragms until they beg for mercy haha.
ALK2415
Structural
- Sep 15, 2014
- 289
@ lexpatrie
why you against green/sustainable buildings ?
Understanding building consumption, heat gain, and efficiency will improve our design and structural engineers ?
don't you that?
just have a look on the Bently "openbuildings energy simulator" its quite important to follow these modifications in Building design ..
why you against green/sustainable buildings ?
Understanding building consumption, heat gain, and efficiency will improve our design and structural engineers ?
don't you that?
just have a look on the Bently "openbuildings energy simulator" its quite important to follow these modifications in Building design ..
I think Lex is saying that "green" is over done ... everything is "green" or "net zero", like how everything used to be (a very long time ago) "hifi"
"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.
"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.
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milkshakelake
Structural
I don't feel like I, as a structural engineer, have much say in the sustainability of a building. I'm the wrong person to throw that onto. The developers have 99% of the power to be sustainable, and the architect maybe 1%.
ALK2415
Structural
- Sep 15, 2014
- 289
@ milkshakelake
the old structural engineers were in charge of all the design thing; architectural and structural parts.
So knowing what building need to be "function" will reflect on the structural form !
May be its just me, but i tend to do "some" of the conceptual design (structural) of buildings and ask the Architect to give them suitable faces
In other instances, i change the architectural shape to suit the structural requirements ...
And I agree with you, Moden engineering had it all sort out to specialized sectors of Engineering.
the old structural engineers were in charge of all the design thing; architectural and structural parts.
So knowing what building need to be "function" will reflect on the structural form !
May be its just me, but i tend to do "some" of the conceptual design (structural) of buildings and ask the Architect to give them suitable faces
In other instances, i change the architectural shape to suit the structural requirements ...
And I agree with you, Moden engineering had it all sort out to specialized sectors of Engineering.
WesternJeb
Structural
With MSL on this one. We are told what materials to use to be sustainable by others.
The only variability I have thought about is how either how I spec. concrete mixes or if I provide web openings in steel beams. All of that is questionable/minimal in the big scheme.
The only variability I have thought about is how either how I spec. concrete mixes or if I provide web openings in steel beams. All of that is questionable/minimal in the big scheme.
I guess I had two points
a) this focus on "new" materials that are used in perhaps 1% of projects, (cough CLT cough), that are also completely useless in existing structures, "SpeedPlate" SpeedCore or whatever it's called from AISC, versus analysis which applies across material types, and
b) sustainability over any other technical subject leaves everyone short on the other aspects. A balanced diet would be nice, but it seems like everything out there in continuing education opportunities is on sustainability or adjacent. Goes for Architects and Engineers equally. Not that Architects are really on the hook for analysis, but lately there was this whole sequence on HSS columns being better for the environment, and it just got totally lost on me, because they tend to be better as columns anyway, for strength, and in the past the hatred they got was for their cost, at least partly, and now rather than going after the strength aspect, which feels incidental in most of these presentations, it's all about embodied energy or carbon or whatever. I mean they were calculating the carbon impact or whatever for the welding. That level of granularity seems ... excessive. I suppose eventually we'll swing the other way and regardless of cost be trying to reduce material usage and improve ease of demolition and re-use, as resources get more and more scarce.
on fine, three points. Three.
c) I have enough on my plate regarding structural design. But it feels like everyone else wants to take on more and more as "structural engineers" that isn't structural engineering. Informing adjacent building owners of new construction impacts on their roof from new snow drifts, more and more "coordination" with truss suppliers versus addressing 'our' position on what information they need, energy calculations. I'm all for changes to concrete "under the surface" to make it less energy consuming, that feels like a natural evolution, but the thermal heat flow simulation through a facade attachment to a structural steel frame, while it generates pretty graphics, doesn't feel like structural engineering, to me.
Not that that's what this thread is about, sorry for the highjack.
a) this focus on "new" materials that are used in perhaps 1% of projects, (cough CLT cough), that are also completely useless in existing structures, "SpeedPlate" SpeedCore or whatever it's called from AISC, versus analysis which applies across material types, and
b) sustainability over any other technical subject leaves everyone short on the other aspects. A balanced diet would be nice, but it seems like everything out there in continuing education opportunities is on sustainability or adjacent. Goes for Architects and Engineers equally. Not that Architects are really on the hook for analysis, but lately there was this whole sequence on HSS columns being better for the environment, and it just got totally lost on me, because they tend to be better as columns anyway, for strength, and in the past the hatred they got was for their cost, at least partly, and now rather than going after the strength aspect, which feels incidental in most of these presentations, it's all about embodied energy or carbon or whatever. I mean they were calculating the carbon impact or whatever for the welding. That level of granularity seems ... excessive. I suppose eventually we'll swing the other way and regardless of cost be trying to reduce material usage and improve ease of demolition and re-use, as resources get more and more scarce.
on fine, three points. Three.
c) I have enough on my plate regarding structural design. But it feels like everyone else wants to take on more and more as "structural engineers" that isn't structural engineering. Informing adjacent building owners of new construction impacts on their roof from new snow drifts, more and more "coordination" with truss suppliers versus addressing 'our' position on what information they need, energy calculations. I'm all for changes to concrete "under the surface" to make it less energy consuming, that feels like a natural evolution, but the thermal heat flow simulation through a facade attachment to a structural steel frame, while it generates pretty graphics, doesn't feel like structural engineering, to me.
Not that that's what this thread is about, sorry for the highjack.
- Thread starter
- #11
driftLimiter
Structural
@lex don't worry about it the thread was pretty much a meme to begin with. I'm pleased it has produced a meaningful discussion.
I design steel connections for metal fabricators, and quite often encounter issues with 'cold' transfer. I put a note on the drawing for the ARCH/EOR to confirm. A problem, maybe a couple of times a month.
A couple of days back I had a project where the Arch had a shelf angle supporting an exterior structured slab with rigid insulation between the angle and the concrete supporting beam... again just flagged it as an issue. It's not my job to do this, but if there's a problem on the site, it could become an issue.
My biggest problem is fastening guards to 'unknown' backing with lag screws...
-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
A couple of days back I had a project where the Arch had a shelf angle supporting an exterior structured slab with rigid insulation between the angle and the concrete supporting beam... again just flagged it as an issue. It's not my job to do this, but if there's a problem on the site, it could become an issue.
My biggest problem is fastening guards to 'unknown' backing with lag screws...
-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
Timber product producers want to grow their market, so they use industry rep organizations like Woodworks to push whatever message they think will further that goal. Since sustainability is a trending topic, that’s naturally an area they can leverage to build more demand and expand their product market.
I just read an article this week about a Maine senator pushing for mass timber mandates in federal projects. Same article quoted someone from Woodworks, so you can see how things are being steered. Nothing wrong with this in my opinion. Having a mass timber economy in Maine would be fantastic and a truly sustainable resource. They just need to reach that critical mass of demand to start luring in investors on the supply side. Lots of architects around here want to do mass timber, but it always gets VE’d out since the mass timber has to be imported and is not cost competitive. All we need is a local producer to meet that pent up demand for mass timber projects. I do give Woodworks some credit in building up some of that demand through their outreach initiatives.
I just read an article this week about a Maine senator pushing for mass timber mandates in federal projects. Same article quoted someone from Woodworks, so you can see how things are being steered. Nothing wrong with this in my opinion. Having a mass timber economy in Maine would be fantastic and a truly sustainable resource. They just need to reach that critical mass of demand to start luring in investors on the supply side. Lots of architects around here want to do mass timber, but it always gets VE’d out since the mass timber has to be imported and is not cost competitive. All we need is a local producer to meet that pent up demand for mass timber projects. I do give Woodworks some credit in building up some of that demand through their outreach initiatives.
ALK2415
Structural
- Sep 15, 2014
- 289
AI has something to say about that:
It's interesting to hear your perspective on this. While it's true that changes to concrete to make it less energy-consuming can be seen as a natural evolution in the field of structural engineering, the use of thermal heat flow simulations through a facade attachment to a structural steel frame can also be viewed as an innovative approach to improving building efficiency.
The purpose of structural engineering is not just to ensure the stability and safety of a structure, but also to optimize its performance under various conditions, including thermal conditions. The use of thermal heat flow simulations can provide valuable insights into how a building's design can impact its thermal performance, which in turn can affect the building's energy consumption and comfort levels for its occupants.
While these simulations may not involve physical changes to the structure itself, they are still a crucial part of the design process and can inform decisions about materials, construction methods, and other aspects of the building's design. Therefore, even though it might not feel like traditional structural engineering, it's an important aspect of modern building design and construction.
That being said, it's understandable that not everyone may see it this way. The field of structural engineering is vast and diverse, and what feels like structural engineering to one person may not feel the same to another. It's this diversity of perspectives and approaches that helps drive innovation and progress in the field. So, your viewpoint is certainly valid and contributes to the ongoing discussion in this field.
It's interesting to hear your perspective on this. While it's true that changes to concrete to make it less energy-consuming can be seen as a natural evolution in the field of structural engineering, the use of thermal heat flow simulations through a facade attachment to a structural steel frame can also be viewed as an innovative approach to improving building efficiency.
The purpose of structural engineering is not just to ensure the stability and safety of a structure, but also to optimize its performance under various conditions, including thermal conditions. The use of thermal heat flow simulations can provide valuable insights into how a building's design can impact its thermal performance, which in turn can affect the building's energy consumption and comfort levels for its occupants.
While these simulations may not involve physical changes to the structure itself, they are still a crucial part of the design process and can inform decisions about materials, construction methods, and other aspects of the building's design. Therefore, even though it might not feel like traditional structural engineering, it's an important aspect of modern building design and construction.
That being said, it's understandable that not everyone may see it this way. The field of structural engineering is vast and diverse, and what feels like structural engineering to one person may not feel the same to another. It's this diversity of perspectives and approaches that helps drive innovation and progress in the field. So, your viewpoint is certainly valid and contributes to the ongoing discussion in this field.
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ALK2415 said:
Who cares what sequence of characters a glorified chat bot strings together? If adds nothing to a discussion between people who are actual experts in their field, and only discredits the user when applied in that manner.
AI is neat has a lot of great applications now and they will only grow, but if you need it to make a compete argument for you you're a bit out of your depth.
ALK2415
Structural
- Sep 15, 2014
- 289
@ PHAMENG
don't appreciate your tone of talking ! "Out of Depth"
its meant for building energy simulation vs structural design, and to some degree, IT does have EFFECTS.
don't appreciate your tone of talking ! "Out of Depth"
its meant for building energy simulation vs structural design, and to some degree, IT does have EFFECTS.
kissymoose
Structural
ALK2415, I feel there may be a miscommunication.
Are you saying you used AI to generate a response to lexpatrie or that AI can be a helpful tool for structural engineering?
Are you saying you used AI to generate a response to lexpatrie or that AI can be a helpful tool for structural engineering?
I think he would surprise you, I recently (within the past year) had a sit down with Terry and went through some complex diaphragms with him and how to simplify his approaches, and he had a lot to say about simplification of it. He wants to present the full/correct method, but you start seeing short cuts in the calculations as you do them.milkshakelake said:
Based on the description of the presentation, I bet he will provide some much needed insight for architects, both new and old.
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