The Corporate Gears to fight 11

[HornTootinEE]

Question for the masses:

Some background: I have 4 years of expierience in the utility industry since graduting from college with an EE degree, Power emphasis. My first year I worked in our company's substation department, doing system protection, subtation control design, etc. After a year I transferred to another location as a distribution engineer, doing pretty much anything distribution: Substations, system protection, circuit design, underground, overhead, Distribution SCADA, etc. You name it, it gets thrown on my desk.

I have been working pretty hard, doing well, getting great reviews at my performance evals from my boss, being told I'm doing above and beyond the level of work the company expects for an engineer at my level. (I'm not tooting my horn, just telling you what my boss is saying). I'm trying to take on large projects, extra duties as needed, etc. But asking for a promotion from Eng. II to Eng. III or an above-average raise (better than 3%) gets met with "ah, eh well HR won't allow that" type of crap. The "HR won't allow it" has been the prevailing attitude since I started with pretty much anything. So, I ask HR about it, they say "Well, Management has to come to us with promotions and raises and we pretty much just make sure everything is legal, we aren't slowing things down"

Now the question: How do you fight the corporate gears like that? Do you fight it, put up with it, or find another company to work for? My wages are literally average or slightly below, my benefits are maybe average for the industry, and vacation/holidays is also around average. Retirement is decent, but average again.

People talk the economy, but in our geographic area, the economy is not slowing down one bit, especially for the utility sector. Even the company throws "the economy" at us but has posted record earnings the past two years.

SO, in the seasoned opinions of those on this board, whats next?

 

[MintJulep]

Pretty much the only way to get a big jump in salary is to change employers.

 

[MikeHalloran]

When you decide to jump ship,
FIRST, get the other job. In writing.
THEN, give notice.
DO NOT give a reason. "I quit, effective <date>." That's it.
DO NOT submit to an 'exit interview'. If coerced, say nothing.
DO NOT accept a counteroffer, not even a big one. They will screw you later.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[ivymike]

DO NOT accept a counteroffer, not even a big one. They will screw you later.

not that I necessarily recommend this approach, but on an occasion when I felt I was holding most of the good cards, I got a counteroffer then used it to negotiate a higher offer with the new employer before I switched. They didn't have hard feelings about it, and I certainly liked the new offer better than the old one.

 

[TheTick]

Not bragging, just facts...

Not once, but three time in my career I have been given raises or promotions that were beyond the established HR or budgetary boundaries. Bosses thought I was valuable enough to fight for. It does happen on occasion.

On the flip side, one boss was told to dial back the ratings on my review, being told from HR that "no one deserves that high a rating".

Don't get me wrong, I've had bad reviews and bad jobs and bad bosses and even questionable performance at times since. I think I was just lucky early on to be both good enough and to have bosses that were brave enough.

 

[vandal06]

What MintJulep said. I've only changed jobs once in my 4 year career, but I got a much larger salary bump from that then all the other raises I had at my previous job combined. And the cycle repeats itself here, I'm getting adequate raises but I know the next large salary bump would be if I changed companies.

You said you work in the utility industry, do you mean you work directly for a utility or for a consultant?

 

[KENAT]

Mike & Mint have pretty much laid out the apparent rule of thumb for this kind of situation.

However, like all rules of thumb there are exceptions, trouble is it can be difficult to know if you're one of them. At one point early in my career I got told similar to you by my director. Then out of the blue, outside of the usual 'pay raise' season I got pulled into the managing directors office and told I was getting a 19% pay raise.

I know of people that threatened to leave, and got paid handsomely to stay, but there are plenty of stories of that tactic going wrong too.

So, you might get surprised, but I'd start looking for alternative employment just in case.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[DerPumpeMeister]

It's amazing how often excuses such as HR or budget limits are given when discussing a pay raise. Once I came into management I realized these are important, but it is possible to give a raise to a valuable employee. In fact, I think it is imperitive that managers identify and reward those few employees that are vital to the company.

After a few years in my first job after graduation, I was in a similar situation as you. My performance reviews were excellent, I had never been disciplined, I was working above and beyond, but still I was underpaid. I did some research to confirm that I was underpaid for my level of experience, responsibility and geographical area. Then I scheduled a time to speak with my boss (BTW, if you want to discuss pay, schedule an appointment. It's not a good idea to make someone feel ambushed). I presented my case that I was worth a pay raise and what I was asking was not out of line compared to other companies. I did not give an ultimatum, though personally I was resigned to looking for another job if it did not go well. I ended up with a 15% raise!

The fact is, you know that your boss is not hindered by HR. You confirmed this. He is happy to pay you at your current salary as long as you are willing to accept it. Let him know that you are not satisfied and feel you are undervalued. Don't be whiny or moody, just be professional. Use the phrase, "fair and reasonable" to describe your requested pay raise. If you don't get the response you want, look around to see what other jobs are available and if you are worth more to another company. I agree with the advice above about not accepting a counter offer if/when you annouce your resignation. Once you decide to take another job, don't waiver.

Good luck!

How to Find, Get and Keep an Engineering Job

http://www.EngineeringGuideBook.com

 

[oldfieldguy]

What everybody else said.

'Tis a sad fact. You hired on with skillset "A". since then you've added "B" and "C" while only receiving incremental raises.

"If they went out and hired somebody with A, B, and C skills off the street, they'd likely pay him MORE than you.

I've faced this dilemma as a manager of technical personnel for decades. I tried fighting it in the corporate HQ. I tried building logical cases for pay raises based on equitable measures of skill. I got shot down a lot.

Nobody said it was gonna be fair...

My sympathies to you.

old field guy

 

[HornTootinEE]

vandal-

I work directly for an electric and natural gas utility company. Our holding company is a fortune 500 company. As a utility, we have nearly a million customers and very large geographic area. The area I'm in charge of the distribution system (at least the engineering) is probably 300 miles x 300 miles. There is another engineer that graduated from college at the same time I did and has also been with the company 4 yrs that shares the duties for that territory. Lots of small towns, some larger towns in there too.

I'll be sitting for my PE in April, and I know for a fact I won't even get a Congrats for passing that test.

 

[MikeHalloran]

One more thing.

>> So, I ask HR about it,...<<

That was a mistake.

One, HR is _never_ going to give you a straight answer.
Engineers generally respond to a direct question with absolute truth.
HR weenies don't think that way. They live and die by corporate politics, and are _always_ playing that game.

Two, you are now marked as a malcontent. No matter how politely you may have phrased it, you are on the troublemaker list to stay.
Or rather, to go.

Accelerate your job search.


Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[SNORGY]

Professional compensation is performance based.

Average performance deserves average compensation; below average performance deserves below average compensation; above average performance deserves above average compensation.

If your supervisor / boss is saying your performance is above average, then that comes at a cost on the payroll. It's that simple. So, if you have a discrepancy between "what is said" and "what is paid", and you have the baseline to compare to, I would be inclined to *ask* your supervisor / boss to see if it can be brought into alignment.

If not - for whatever reason - take care of yourself and exit as graciously as you can when the time comes.

I recently faced the problem from the other end. I had certain expectations of an employee / subordinate. For example, I would give an assignment on Wednesday, expecting results the following Monday, with the results to take the form of a deliverable capturing points {x, y, z} with an error / rework allowance of say 5%. This employee would produce everything and present it to me that Friday morning, completely addressing {x, y and z} plus a whole bunch of other stuff from {a-w} with a rework level of 0%. So, my evaluation was full of "exceeds expectations". However, I was told by management and HR to reduce the rankings in order to justify paying lower salary adjustments. In anticipation of this outcome, I "accidentally" gave the employee a signed copy of the evaluation before others could intercept it and tailor it to their own purpose. Their rationale was that my expectations were too low and that I did not know how to critically evaluate (be critical enough of) an engineer's performance. My rebuttal was that I didn't know how to function in HR or as an MBA, but I knew how to do and evaluate engineering, so as long as they were going to task me with the evaluation of same, then it was my judgement that would be documented, not theirs.

The employee / subordinate in this instance was subsequently compensated at a level that was well above "average", exactly and precisely as it should have been. Both management and HR relented and accepted that high performance begets high compensation, and the alternative is attrition.

I can't help but think that most employers probably see it the same way. In the end, it probably all comes down to your approach. Politeness and impartiality will probably serve you well, and if they are not enough, then at least your conscience is not muddied if you elect to move on.

Regards,

SNORGY.

 

[TenPenny]

I expect these two things are related:

'told I'm doing above and beyond the level of work the company expects for an engineer at my level.'

and

'wages are literally average or slightly below, my benefits are maybe average for the industry, and vacation/holidays is also around average. Retirement is decent, but average again.'

In other words, the company doesn't pay particularly well, and doesn't expect much from their employees. Sounds like a company determined to stick to the road to average, they want mediocrity, and reward employees accordingly. Probably people who aim high leave the firm for greener pastures.

 

[HornTootinEE]

Another salary problem we run into is how HR uses these "pay scales" My position (engineer II) is at a certain pay scale with certain minimum, maximum, and midpoint. Their goal is to not let you go above the midpoint. So I ask for a raise, get told I'm too close to the midpoint. So I ask for a promotion to engineer III (next pay class) and get told "You don't have the minimum 5 years expierience" The next gun I have brought out is the PE. I hope to pass in April. If June results show I pass, I have been told "You still won't have your 5 yrs in June, so you have to wait" Then I pull out the duties I perform that align or exceed HR's Engineer III guidlines and get the same "You don't have 5 yrs yet"

I apologize if this sounds like a rant. It sortof is, but I assume from the posts I've seen on this thread already that many of you have ran into this problem on both sides of the coin, as manager and managed.

 

[MintJulep]

If no one is above the mid-point it's not the mid-point is it?

 

[HornTootinEE]

Mint-

EXACTLY. What is the point of a "midpoint" if it's not the "midpoint"

SOME get above Midpoint, like a Senior Engineer with 25 + Yrs might get above his/her midpoint. But it's rare.

 

[KENAT]

Actually, taken to it's logical conclusion, this implies the company actually wants to employ below average employees if the most they're willing to pay is the 'mid point'.

I get to start the review process in the next few days, wonder if I'll still be below the minimum pay for my 'category'?

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[BJC]

Try engineering -construction companies. They pay more and the work is more fun.
Some people will tell you utilities are a more stable secure work place-if you believe that I have a nice bridge up by Tacoma i can let you have cheap.

 

[Ron]

MikeHalloran has given you the list of things to do...exactly right. Do it.

 

[pmover]

yes, i will second Mike Halloran comments . . . your first step should never be go to HR. HR folks gets direction from your boss &/or higher.

move forward and do not look back. change is good, very good!!! encourage yourself to explore other pastures to graze in. crab-grass and water starved pastures are definitely not that palatable.

good luck!
-pmover