The grout shall be segregate 4

[Steve S.]

Some specifications for cementitious grout include "The grout shall be segregate," which I don't understand.
Initially I thought it was a typo of "The grout shall not be allowed to segregate but a google search brings up examples including that go back at least as far as 2013.

https://purchasing.ri.gov/rivip/stateagencybids/7461372a1.pdf

https://usa.sika.com/content/dam/dms/us01/1/CSI Specs - SikaGrout®-328.pdf

 

[BridgeSmith]

I'm pretty sure you're right about what it should say. Just goes to show almost no one reads specifications.

Rod Smith, P.E., The artist formerly known as HotRod10

 

[TigerGuy]

Rod,

To quote an earthwork contractor, "What do you mean modified proctor? I've never heard of a modified proctor." He just bid the job based on how many yards needed to be moved and never read the specs.

 

[Ron]

Grout should never segregate. Sometimes spec writers don't even know what they are writing and don't understand the implications.

 

[Steve S.]

Thanks. That makes sense to me, I just had Grout Expectations that Sika's cementitious grout specs couldn't be all wrong.

 

[dik]

Yes Ron, in particilar that with most contracts, specs override drawings...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[Mo Mentum]

"Grout Expectations"! Who says engineers don't have a sense of humor!

 

[BigH]

dik - I had asked this a while back - the priority of documents. In the overseas contracts I have been involved in, it is clear in writing that specifications overrule drawings which overrule BOQ (yes, I have seen some BOQs try to 'design' the project). The results of many comments was that the most "onerous" ruled. Interesting . . .

 

[dik]

With any contracts I've been involved with, the hierarchy of documents stipulate that specs override drawings... including a few European and Asian projects. I've not seen it any other way. I'm only aware of a couple of court cases and there was no 'waffling' on this matter. A lot of contract law is 'written in stone' with no wiggle room, is my experience.

I've gotten into many discussions with firms that I've worked with on this matter. Generally specs are relegated to an 'afterthought' and not considered that imporant. Some firms have 'real' spec writers, and that's their only function. Ron was 'bang on', as usual.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[BridgeSmith]

In our construction spec book here at the DOT, this is the order of precedence:

documents have the following order of precedence:
1. Successive “Contract Amendments” (Form E-61) in order of issuance, most recent first.
2. Addenda
3. “Contract” (Form E-82A).
4. Department-obtained agreements.
5. “Proposal” (Form E-91).
6. Special provisions.
7. Supplementary documents.
8. Plans.
9. Supplementary specifications.
10.Standard plans.
11.These Standard Specifications.
12.Electronic CADD files.

Rod Smith, P.E., The artist formerly known as HotRod10

 

[dik]

Thanks Rod... that's the first time I've seen that hierarchy. Which jurisdiction?

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[BridgeSmith]

State of Wyoming DOT

Rod Smith, P.E., The artist formerly known as HotRod10

 

[dik]

Do you have a *.pdf of the standard contract? or do they have one?

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[BridgeSmith]

If I understand correctly, the "Contract" is whole 'build' package for a particular project - plans, specifications, agreements, etc. that the Contractor and the owner's rep. sign after the bid is awarded.

Rod Smith, P.E., The artist formerly known as HotRod10

 

[Steve S.]

Order of precedence list for WDYOT is in their standard specifications.
Interesting it is that the order of precedence is in a document near the bottom of the precedence list.
If the list is omitted from the "Project Manual" or "Contract Documents," I guess this would be the default list.

https://www.dot.state.wy.us/files/l...ications for Road and Bridge Construction.pdf

 

[Steve S.]

105.4

 

[BridgeSmith]

If the list is omitted from the "Project Manual" or "Contract Documents," I guess this would be the default list.

That's how it works. Everything applies unless it is superseded by something in a document higher on the list.

Rod Smith, P.E., The artist formerly known as HotRod10

 

[dik]

Thanks... that shows

I've been unable to locate the actual contract form that shows this to be the case. Just because it's shown here, doesn't mean this is the case. #3 is the kicker... If it's not stipulated here, it's not... the first three items are common to all contracts, I've encountered.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[BridgeSmith]

I'm not sure I follow you, dik. I think generally only provisions specific to the project are spelled out in the contract. I believes items 4 through 8 on that list typically become part of the Contract, but if they are altered at the time of being incorporated into the Contract, then the version in the Contract supersedes the previous versions.

The plans will show placing crushed base in a particular location, but all of the material properties, gradations, etc. as well as directives of how to place it, compact it, etc. are in the Standard Specifications and the contractor has to follow that unless it's superseded by something contradictory in the plans or a special provision, such as a different gradation for the material. If the gradation in the spec book will do the job, then the plans don't mention the gradation, and since there's nothing saying otherwise, the contractor is required to use what's shown in the spec book.

The Contract Plans may show a particular type of guardrail to be installed at a particular location, and unless there's something unusual about it, the contractor will refer to the Standard Plans for all the details of how to build it, and the Standard Specifications for what materials to use for the various components.

Rod Smith, P.E., The artist formerly known as HotRod10