The title "SE" for a structural engineer. 8

[3doorsdwn]

Recently I became an SE [in Illinois; my base state (original state of licensure) does not license by discipline] and one thing I have always been confused about is if it is proper to have "SE" behind your name on business cards, e-mails, etc.. I've heard one school of thought that says it is not proper to use if the state you live in is a non-SE state, and others who say that it is ok. I've seen some people use the new "MLSE" thing that NCEES has come up with as a title instead.

Thoughts? Does anyone know (in general) what the regs are about this? Thanks in advance.

 

[Ron]

Assuming you were a P.E. prior to becoming an S.E., then most that I've seen use P.E.,S.E.

P.E. is a recogized title. S.E. has not yet achieved that in the public, but most engineers know what it is.

I would suggest something like...

Joe Schmoe, S.E.
Licensed Structural Engineer

 

[3doorsdwn]

I currently use: MS, PE behind the name. Now I was thinking with adding on the SE. One guy I know who is also registered in an SE state (but lives in a non-SE state) uses PE & MLSE behind his name. (Because he has been told the SE title isn't proper.......and I've heard that myself so I thought I'd pose the question here.)

 

[Qshake]

I use the PE, SE in my signature block. My thoughts are is that I'm a licensed structural engineer and have earned an achievement worthy of distinction just as some use MSCE or AIA etc. Truthfully you can no more stop being a SE than you can a MSCE. It just means that some states recognize it and others don't. I have no problems with people ignoring the SE designation where it doesn't apply. In my career I've met many folks who've ignored me and I'm certain I'll meet many more.

Lately there has been a debate over noting which states you're registered or licensed in. This is to avoid giving the false impression that you might be a PE in a state where you are not but are doing business, want to do business or soon will be doing business. In some cases you might be visiting an office that you company has in that state and offer a business card to a client. I find this somewhat tedious. If your company has a license to do business in that state and you happen to be there to consult or work under a professional licensed in that state, no big deal.

I do recognize and adhere to the laws of each state and do not practice engineering where I'm not licensed or registered or working under someone who is. I do not sell services of the company to states in which we are not licensed to do business.

It seems that putting every state that you're registered in is just more lawyering we don't need.

exit from soapbox.

Regards,
Qshake

Eng-Tips Forums:Real Solutions for Real Problems Really Quick.

 

[JAE]

I use xxxxx xxxxx P.E., S.E. after my name. I never have, nor ever would, use by educational degree initials like M.S.

My state does have an SE as a title act (not a practice act like Illinois) but I am licensed in both states so I use the S.E. - even when marketing my services in others states in which I'm licensed but where they only have a P.E.

 

[msquared48]

I use both for the same reason as JAE, but primarily just the SE since most of my work is in WA.

I also include under my name, where appropriate the term "Structural Engineer of Record".

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Motto: KISS
Motivation: Don't ask

 

[cvg]

how about

Joe Blow, PhD, PhD, PE, SE, CFM, CPESC, PMP, LEED?

Seriously, keep it simple and just go with PE

 

[nutte]

If your state doesn't have an SE act, and you are an SE in some other state, I don't see a problem with putting "PE, SE" after your name. You are a PE, so you're not misrepresenting yourself there. Your state doesn't have an SE, so why would they care if you add some extraneous letters after your name?

 

[abusementpark]

I currently use: MS, PE behind the name. Now I was thinking with adding on the SE. One guy I know who is also registered in an SE state (but lives in a non-SE state) uses PE & MLSE behind his name. (Because he has been told the SE title isn't proper.......and I've heard that myself so I thought I'd pose the question here.)

I'm seeing more and more people put MSCE behind their names. If someone wants to do that, then I don't see why not since the PhD's get to do it.

 

[DaveAtkins]

SE is every bit as "proper" as PE--perhaps more so, because it is a two day exam!

On my business card, I show XXXXX XXXXXX, PE, SE.

The only time I exercise caution is when I am sending correspondence to someone in a state where I am not licensed. I either drop the "PE, SE" or I write something like "PE (Wisconsin), SE (Illinois)."

DaveAtkins

 

[Qshake]

Ron - How did you know my name?! I try to keep that sort of thing personal!! People make fun of my last name....

Joe Schmoe, he's the kinda of guy who likes Curly, Larry and Moe.....

Darn it.

Regards,
Qshake

Eng-Tips Forums:Real Solutions for Real Problems Really Quick.

 

[MiketheEngineer]

Some states are getting a bit "stupid" if a PE uses Joe Blow, PE in a letter, report or whatever and it ends up in their state where he/she is not registered.

Some courts have even challenged a PE's court testimony if not registered there - beleive it or not.

Some PE's add a disclaimer indicating the states where they are registered.

Just something else stupid to think about.

 

[JStephen]

I'd say stick with the "PE" and be done with it.

My home state doesn't license by discipline. My degree and tests were all in ME, and in the states that license by discipline, I'm registered as an ME. However, here a couple of years ago, Utah grandfathered in anyone that was doing structural work as an SE. Because a lot of my work could be lumped under either category, I am now an official SE in Utah. So should I add that to all my business cards? I think not...

 

[weab]

This is a ridiculous issue that has been made serious by state laws. If you are registered in one state, you ARE a PE or an SE, etc. In my humble opinion, you are not misrepresenting yourself.

However, check the laws of all the states you do business in. Check the state websites. Be careful what business cards that you hand out when you cross states lines. I read the monthly/quarterly proceedings of state PE boards that are sent to me. You could end up in front of an ethics board if you are not careful.

 

[paddingtongreen]

If you are a PE in any state, you are a PE, period. Most states allow an out-of-state PE to practice for up to six weeks. The only time you would get in trouble is if you tout for business.

On personal note, I am suspicious of someone with a string of letters after their name, I wonder if they are not more interested in being a "name" rather than in being a better engineer.

Michael.
Timing has a lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance.

 

[TXStructural]

Use the SE if you are in a state that recognizes it for title or practice. Most states are considering changes with the new exams. I'd avoid using anything which is irrelevant. For instance, I am John Q. Public, CSP, PE where the CSP and PE are professional designations obtained through education, experience, and examination. If an educational degree is relevant to the practice, use it. "PhD" is typically used to show significant additional education (my master's was only 17 months, rather than about 48 for the PhD program I was is.)

Texas prohibits out of state engineers from using "PE" only if they are offering to provide engineering services in the state. As a title, there is no implication for its use, unless one is unlawfully offering service where he/she is not licensed. Often, court testimony as an expert witness IS within the scope of engineering practice, but not the testimony of those providing facts rather than opinion.

 

[BAretired]

What a bunch of crap you American engineers are forced to go through. In the Province of Alberta, Canada, P. Eng. is the way I have always signed my name on documents containing engineering content, i.e. reports or opinions on engineering matters.

Advanced degrees are optional and some engineers choose to include them in their signatures, but in my view, they are unnecessary and a little pretentious.

For ordinary documents such as business letters, no professional designation is needed.

BA

 

[ToadJones]

I agree with Paddington and I am respectfully laughing my a$$ off at some of this. People are actually putting "MSCE" after their name...as in "Master of Science in Civil Engineering"?
That is flat-out hilarious.

John Doe, Elementary School Completer, High School Diploma, BSCE, MSCE, PE, SE, MLSE, State Football Champion, 4.55 forty yard dash, 260 pound bench press,

 

[a2mfk]

Toad- completely agree with you, and yes, I have seen it plenty on emails and message boards with no exaggeration as many acronyms and titles as you just described. All of that actually may help a tiny bit if you deal a lot with lay people writing who can be baffled by your BS- say you provide technical engineering reports, giving opinions, expert witness, etc. But your peers in the business are probably smirking a bit.

I'm jealous of your 40 time if you are for real. I believe my second grade book report record still stands. My wife dug through a box recently and found some old trophies and I came home and found them up on a shelve. Good for a laugh. Some people need the ego stroking I guess!

 

[ToadJones]

a2mfk-
I was kidding and hopefully offended no one, but when I see these guys with an email signature longer than the anything of substance in the email, I can't help but laugh.
I rarely even use "PE" after my name. In certain situations even that can come off a little pretentious.

And no, the fastest 40 time I ever had might have been a hair below 5 seconds, I never benched more than 220 and I didn't even finish out high school football due to injuries. I'm your classic slow white guy.
I did absolutely dominate my grade school geography bees and once answered 95%+ of the questions on Jeopardy to the amazement of my wife...she accused me of having seen the show before.

Thank you,
John Dork, PE, SE, Couch Jeopardy Champ, SWG (slow white guy), GBC (geography bee champion) MSCE, SOB, LOL