The UK government roars into action.

[Ussuri]

Back in March 2007 I posted a link to a petition that was being run to restrict the use of term 'Engineer' to professional engineers. See thread731-180126.

It attracted just over 35,000 signatures, which is pretty poor. However, it was enough to warrant a response from the Government.

I have posted the link below if anyone is interested

http://www.pm.gov.uk/output/Page14749.asp

 

[jmw]

Well, the government does ultimately respond to these petitions since that is about their only target.

But the response seems to be the same every time because there is no commitment to actually take any notice of what people/the public say.

This appears a typical response where the public wants the government to do something it has no intention of doing; the opening paragraph usually (not always) says thanks (appreciate your comments) but no thanks, nothing to do with us.
The the rest is PR spin ("weasle words" is the accepted term I believe) often about something completely different, superficially it seems related but actually, it isn't. In this case the relevance of the bit beginning "However..." escapes me entirely.

Alternatively there is the "we're going to do it anyway response, "a duty to consider all options but as yet no firm decisions have been taken", usually when the government wants to do something and the population would really rather they didn't.

Whatever the purpose of the No 10 Petition site (probably to show Tony's modern techno-image, pseudo or not but at least he doesn't pretend to be able to program a video recorder) it certainly doesn't include actually listening to what the public have to say.
Indeed, it might even be designed to divert the public into non-productive activities.

In this case, quite clearly, the best approach is apparently back to the Engineering Council UK who declare:

ECUK's mission is to set and maintain realistic and internationally recognised standards of professional competence and ethics for engineers, technologists and technicians, and to license competent institutions to promote and uphold the standards.

The question is, does this declaration match the current situation where any one with a Vauxhall Cavalier and an expense account can be called a "Sales Engineer" simply because what they are selling has some relationship to an engineered product or service (or white van and a bag full of excuses; photocopier service engineer).

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[IRstuff]

Which Tony are you refering to? Hasn't anyone noticed that Blair has been gone for what, about 8 months now, or is it different Tony? Isn't Brown the current PM?

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[jmw]

Yes, Tony Blair, for it was he who thought this was "a good idea".
And yes is gone, turned Catholic and become some sort of "peace" envoy. He has ambitions to be the first EU president -- the EU has proven more useful than the Chiltern Hundreds for disposing of lame duck politicians and the UK has gratefully stuffed the European parliament with some real turkeys. But the lure of being called "Mr President" is obviously attractive to Tony even though being Euro President is to a real president what an online diploma is to a real educational qualification.

So The Brun moved into No 10 but he has retained the No 10 Petition facility unchanged in any aspect, including the responses.
It could be that he dares not try to uninstall this because grumpy ex-employees with some PC literacy has been known to booby trap their favourite programs.

Actually, I wonder, did Scott Adams provided the response generator software?

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[TPL]

Why on earth would anyone want to get the UK government involved in this? - they have a track record second to none in getting things 100% wrong


Dentists?
NHS?
John Prescott?
Iraq and Afghanistan
Immigration?
Pensions?

This engineering thing might be broken, but it could be more broken

 

[Pud]

jmw,

It's not weasel words - it's utter bo***cks as usual.


Harry

 

[lz5pl]

white van and a bag full of excuses; photocopier service engineer
================

How typical! The same is in my country!

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It may be like this in theory and practice, but in real life it is completely different.
The favourite sentence of my army sergeant

 

[jmw]

Iz5pl,
did you notice the green underling?
Eng-tips linked that comment to some advertising for Canon photocopiers!

Pud, I accept your correction.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[ChrisConley]

Is bo***cks a bad enough work to merit the ***?

Honestly, in North America it just sounds like a funny thing my grandmother might say.

I guess I'm desensitized.

 

[ScottyUK]

TPL,

The UK and its government had quite a good track record once upon a time before the politicians let our upstart colonies totally bugger things up. No one has surpassed the British Empire at its height, and they don't look likely to any time soon.


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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[TPL]

Goodness Scotty UK, you must be old to remember that far back.

Would that be the British Empire involved in the M'boto Gorge incident where we massacred the peace-loving pygmies of the Upper Volta and stole all their fruit?

 

[KENAT]

But they did have very sharp pieces of gourd TPL.

My 2p worth, the petition was poorly thought out and worded.

As such I'm neither surprised nor upset by the governments response.

Had it been a better petition in the first place, then I might have more sympathy. Anyway I'm in the US now, unlikely to head back to the UK anytime soon so arguably not much of my business anymore.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[jmw]

Jim Hacker: "What am I going to do with all this correspondence?"
Bernard Woolley: "You do realize you don't actually have to, Minister."
Jim Hacker: "Don't I?"
Bernard Woolley: "Not if you don't want to, we can draft an official reply."
Jim Hacker: "What's an official reply?"
Bernard Woolley: "It just says The Minister has asked me to thank you for your letter and we say something like The matter is under consideration, or even if we feel so inclined under active consideration."
Jim Hacker: "What's the difference?"
Bernard Woolley: "Well, under consideration means we've lost the file, under active consideration means we're trying to find it."

http://www.yes-minister.com/ymseas1a.htm

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[ScottyUK]

TPL,

Ahhh, the good old days!




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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[corus]

To be fair, they did actually respond to the petition and 'not lost the file'. I'm not sure they responded to the bigger petition demanding that Jeremy Clarkson be made prime minister. Maybe being caught doing 70 with a mobile stuck to his ear ruined his political career?


corus

 

[jmw]

A brief survey down the pub decided Jeremy Clarkson blotted his copybook with petrol-heads by saying unkind things about Jaguar MKII's.
It was generally agreed that most of the things he said were said just to be clever and that in reality he was talking through the back of his neck.
All those years popularity gone in one ill-judged minute of waffle!

By the way, having exhaustively reviewed the Yes Minister episode summaries I kept thinking they were written based on recent political events and had to keep checking the dates of the episodes.
The Bribes for a contract with the Middle east rang a bell till I recalled that this was a bout 20 years before the BAE deal with Saudi... the whole thing reads like they had a time machine and zoomed forward for the next storyline.

Of course, all it means is that government is a never ending series of repeats events and they never seem to learn from the past.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[KENAT]

Hate to break this to you, but the bribary thing is cultural. If you're going to sell anything to Saudi there will be some kind of back payment scheme.

It's been going on as long as the UK has been selling stuff to them, be it Lightenings, Tornados or Typhoons.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[jmw]

Absolutely, I would strongly disapprove of bribery of a UK contractor by another UK contractor. But different moralities are something else.
Indeed, the fact that "bribery" exists in some countries suggests a cultural acceptance for what may be very sound reasons for that culture.
At the end, as with the BAE, it is jobs and the economy that count and ministers can wear hair shirts or not so long as they compete for the business and don't hand it on a plate to our competitors.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com