thread184-299852 In above thread 1

[Buildtech2]

thread184-299852

In above thread, TravisMack has posted the following.

"In storage, you are typically going to start with a 8k sprinkler. If the density is >0.34, then you need a 11.2k sprinkler as a minimum".

Can I have any reference for above statement either from NFPA or IBC. I am presently designing a fire protection system for a chemical warehouse which as following information.

1.0 FACILITY DESCRIPTION

Chemical Warehouse

The building is a single story structure constructed of noncombustible material used for storing hazardous and flammable materials in the racking system. The total area of the chemical warehouse is 2024 m² (21786 ft²). The ridge height of warehouse is 7.56 m above the finished floor and eaves height is 6 m.

Tire Store
The building is a single story structure constructed of non-combustible material used for storing automobile tire in bulk quantity. The total area of tire storage is 109 m² (1170 ft²). The height of tire storage is 5.5 m (18 ft.).


2.0 Building Classification

Chemical Warehouse.
As discussed above, the chemicals will be stored in the racking system which are flammable and combustible liquids and solids. These materials readily supports combustion or that pose a physical hazard, therefore these materials shall be classified as Group H-3.
As per NFPA, chemical warehouse was classified as Extra Hazard, Group-2.

Tire Storage.
As per section [F] 903.2.9.2, buildings and structures where the volume for the storage of tires exceeds 20,000 ft² (566 m³) shall be equipped with an automatic sprinkler system in accordance with section 903.3.1.1. As per IBC section [F] 903.2.9.2 Bulk Storage of Tires, the tire store can be classified in Group S-1 occupancy as per IBC. According to this, the buildings and structures where the volume of the tire storage exceeds 20,000 cubic feet (566 m³) shall be equipped throughout with an automatic sprinkler system in accordance with section 903.3.1.1
As per NFPA, tire storage was classified as Ordinary hazard, Group-2.


3.0 Automatic Sprinkler/Gas Suppression Systems

Chemical Warehouse.
As discussed above, the chemicals will be stored in the racking system which are flammable and combustible liquids and solids. These materials readily supports combustion or that pose a physical hazard, therefore these materials shall be classified as Group H-3.
As per IBC, [F] 903.2.5 Group H, an automatic sprinkler system shall be provided in high hazard occupancies.

5.5 Tire Storage.
As per IBC section [F] 903.2.9.2, buildings and structures where the volume for the storage of tires exceeds 20,000 ft² (566 m³) shall be equipped with an automatic sprinkler system in accordance with section 903.3.1.1.
The actual volume of tire storage is 11.7 m x 9.3 m x 5.5 m = 599 m³, therefore an automatic sprinkler system shall be provided in the tire storage room.

 

[TravisMack]

Search 12.6 in NFPA 13 for the criteria.

Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC

http://www.mfpdesign.com

"Follow" us at

https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692

 

[skdesigner]

12.6.2 and 12.6.3, in the 2013 edition.

 

[LCREP]

Also check NFPA 30 and FM Data Sheet 7-29 for sprinkler design. You will most likely need a foam system and or floor drainage equal to the sprinkler design area. Seek professional help and contact the insurance carrier engineering department for what they want.

 

[stookeyfpe]

Based on the submitted information your specification does not clearly address how to protect the flammable liquids. Installing an Extra Hazard Group 2 sprinkler system when your specification stipulates rack storage doesn't come close to being adequate protection based on NFPA 30 Chapter 16. Your client or engineer has not given you enough information to demonstrate compliance with IBC Section 903.2.5. As an AHJ I wouldn't approve such a design.

You need to be told what to design to for hazardous materials - these designs are way beyond what I would ask any sprinkler designer to take on.

 

[Buildtech2]

Dear All,

Many thanks for your valuable suggestions.

I think my classification for the chemical warehouse is incorrect as pointed by stookeyfpe as it should have been classified as per storage commodity classification.
At this stage, we do not have exact detail of chemical to be stored in the chemical warehouse as we don’t have any material safety data sheets (MSDS sheet), we can only proceed with assumptions by considering suitable fire protections system shall be an automatic sprinkler system. Though foam can also be used based on type of chemical to be stored but we don't know the detail. I would like to assume the following commodity classification for the warehouse as per clients discussion:

• Noncombustible flammable liquids in plastic cartons having a capacity of more than 5 gallons which represent class-III commodity
• Flammable solids as high hazard commodity.

So by considering the worst case scenario, we can consider High hazard commodity for the chemical warehouse.

Based on High hazard commodity, can anybody tell me how select the following design parameters. Can we use extra hazard, group-1 classification.

1. Area of application
2. Discharge density of fire water
3. Area covered by each sprinkler and sprinkler spacing.

 

[LCREP]

Until you get the following info you can not design the sprinkler system.

1. Type of racks, single, double, multirow. Also width of the flue space between the rack uprights.
2. Rack aisle width
3. Type of pallet, plastic or wood
4. Type of packaging used, % of plastic used, type of plastic as per NFPA 13.
5. Size of liquid container and wall thickness, see NFPA 13, if the wall thickness is above 1/2" the container maybe classified as exposed Grp A plastic.
6. Flashpoint of the liquids as per NFPA 30.

 

[LCREP]

Noncombustible flammable liquids in plastic cartons having a capacity of more than 5 gallons which represent class-III commodity


What is a Noncombustible flammable liquids??????

 

[stookeyfpe]

Many thanks for your valuable suggestions.

I think my classification for the chemical warehouse is incorrect as pointed by stookeyfpe as it should have been classified as per storage commodity classification.
At this stage, we do not have exact detail of chemical to be stored in the chemical warehouse as we don’t have any material safety data sheets (MSDS sheet), we can only proceed with assumptions by considering suitable fire protections system shall be an automatic sprinkler system. Though foam can also be used based on type of chemical to be stored but we don't know the detail. I would like to assume the following commodity classification for the warehouse as per clients discussion:

• Noncombustible flammable liquids in plastic cartons having a capacity of more than 5 gallons which represent class-III commodity
• Flammable solids as high hazard commodity.

I never told you how to classify anything. I advised you that for rack storage of flammable liquids, an Extra Hazard Group 2 density won't protect your commodity. Based on this latest post I will again advise you to seek professional guidance and assistance from a registered Professional Engineer who is licensed in Fire Protection Engineering (or chartered if you're in Europe). My last offering to you is that no reasonable designer, insurer or regulatory official in the fire protection community will ever accept an automatic sprinkler system designed for a Class III commodity classification as the basis for approving an automatic sprinkler design for flammable liquids in plastic packaging.

Good luck.

 

[Buildtech2]

Thanks everybody for your valuable comments. As advised, I will get all the required information about the project before I come to any conclusion. stookeyfpe is correct as he never told me how to classify anything but some outside of this group told me which I have mistakenly written in this group. I apologies.