THREATENED WITH THE SACK 24

[28021973]

Recently I was in the office with my immediate manager.One of our company's highly regarded directors stormed in on our meeting and quite rudely started bawling and shouting at my boss.

Basically it was over an incident that happened 2 days ago; which has no relevance to this thread.

My boss, with all best intentions stayed calm, never spoke out of term and answered all mitigating questions fired at him, the director stormed out.

We were shocked but carried on our meeting, an hour later, another director came and requested my boss apologise for being rude and agressive towards another director. Do this or face the sack, I intervened and tried to explain the situation but I was given the same option as my boss.

I dont belive we should need to apologise, we didnt do or say anything out of term, but it's our word against a director....what do we do..!

 

[TheTick]

You're on the downwind end of a p!ssing contest. Concede.

I've lost a similar battle at my previous employer. Note that they are not my current employer.

Due to illness, the part of The Tick will be played by... The Tick.

http://www.EsoxRepublic.com

 

[IRstuff]

Depends on whether you are willing to lose your job.

If so, you can certainly file a complaint with HR for harassment, "hostile" workplace, etc. Just be prepared to be walked out. Although, you can obviously use for wrongful termination later.

TTFN

 

[TheTick]

Been there. Done that. Lawyer said I was "S.O.L." Wisconsin is a right-to-work state that pretty much give employers freedom to fire for any/no reason.

In my case, I was subject to treatment so poor that people outside of my department complained to the company owner about the treatment I was receiving. At least I got a decent guilt- and cash-laden severance package.

"Hostile workplace" only applies in terms of sexual or racial harassment. It does not cover general meanness.

Due to illness, the part of The Tick will be played by... The Tick.

http://www.EsoxRepublic.com

 

[Theophilus]

I don't recommend you follow my advice.

I'd apologize profusely--obviously so--with lots of syrup and a shade of guile.

Meanwhile, that seems to be an indication of a bad culture at your workplace. I'd look for another gig or find a sturdy client and begin working for yourself. (Wait, I already did that.) I'm no Dilbert, and certainly don't take that sort of stupidity very well. I could use more humility, certainly, but folks who usurp power to demoralize others have no business in management.




Jeff Mowry
Industrial Designhaus, LLC

http://www.industrialdesignhaus.com

 

[EngJW]

To whom were you supposed to apologize? The one demanding it is just a no-count idiot and you can write him out of your life. If it is to the other one, the shouter, possibly he can be reached on a better day and be reasoned with.

How you get along with your immediate boss is more important to your mental health. If you change jobs because of someone higher up, you may encounter the same thing in another company, or much worse, end up working for him. They are everywhere.

John Woodward

 

[buzzp]

If I recall, Right to Work has nothing to do with getting fired. It just means you have the right to form a union. Am I wrong.

Leave the company! Baby arses like that are all too common and things will never change. Let them fire you then go draw unemployment. That or plan on spending the rest of your career their playing their little baby games. I would, of course, attempt to explain to the senior boss what really took place since there were two of you and one of him. If he don't buy it, look for another job. There are too many spineless people out there already, we do not need another.

 

[jmw]

Sounds like a set of bad directors or directors behaving badly.

In any hierarchical structure it is extremely counter productive to conduct these discussions in front of a more junior employee. Less damage, less loss of face and fewer public grovellings afterwards.

I am not sure if you are being cynical when you refer to "our highly regarded directors" but knowing directors as i do i think you are, so chances are that if they make your boss toe the line and appologise they will come after you too, if only because your were "involved". These guys probably think no one is indispensible (except themselves) so even if you are what holds the company together, they will not hesitate to make "tough decisions".

Get that Resume up to date and out there.

JMW

http://www.viscoanalyser.com

Eng-Tips: Pro bono publico, by engineers, for engineers.

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

 

[tygerdawg]

You say "Right To Work", but maybe you mean the term used in SC, "At Will". You can be fired "At Will" at any time for no reason. Power to the management, we are pro-business, ad nauseum.

As for the pair of royal jerks, decide whether or not you need to keep your job. For either choice, then go mend those fences, stroke those egos, and start looking for another position. That is a sick, toxic company that allows that kind of behavior to exist in their upper level management. Those cretins should be drawn & quartered.

You can complain, but like the other guy said, you run the risk of being escorted out of the building. I had a jerk of a boss start throwing his weight around, making my life miserable, threatening termination for no reason. He had previously fired another employee that stood up to the jerk, so he was thinking he could get away with it again with me. I agonized over it because I needed the benefits package for my disabled child. I finally got my nerve up and went to HR Mgr. Very meekly I wimpered that I don't know why I'm being treated this way, I've got good performance reviews, etc. etc. etc. The kicker was when I said "Bill, "harassment" is a very strong word and I don't want to use it, but if this doesn't change I may be forced to."

My boss was secretly packed up and shipped off to a "How to be a better manager" class within a week. Hooray for the little guy. And that was the hot button that kept him at bay for the next two years until I found a good position elsewhere. Anytime he would start acting like a jackass, I'd go to the HR Mgr and hint the "H" word.

Tread lightly my friend and find another job ASAP.

TygerDawg

 

[rmw]

You can win this battle, but you WILL lose the war.

If you are going to lose the war, lose it on your own terms. Play the part now, do what is required with dignity, but get the resume dusted off and get out of there as soon as you can, just make it on your timing, not theirs.

rmw

 

[twodoorhardtop]

I had a similar situation but it was with my immediate boss. He wanted me to work late even though I was extremely tired. I told him in a profesional manner that I had everything ready for the parts arrival that night and there wasn't a need for me to be there. That wasn't the right thing to say (apparently), because the next thing I knew a HR person was there threatening my job. I was shocked! Didn't matter that others working that night weren't in that day and I had already worked 70 hrs. It was explained that it wasn't my decision whether I needed to be there. It was his. Ended up I also had to apologize to him and meet with three other directors about it. I sucked it up but also began to look for a another job. He was always blaming my two teamates and me for the bad things and taking credit for the good things. A month later, company wide lay-offs. My engineering teamates were let go. I was miracously saved and moved to another team. He was left to tend to things with 0 engineers!!! His fellow directors got him good!

So for 28021973, I beleive its much better to apologize and stay for now. If you want to leave, you can, but it will be on your terms. Play it cool and quiet. Don't get out hastily and find something better. You can always tell the truth about the episode during the exit interview.

 

[corus]

Basically you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. The director obviously has it in for you and your manager and the future won't be good whatever you do. The first director is at fault for bawling out your boss in front of you all and the second director is at fault for trying to belittle you all, again in front of everyone. I'd wait for the sack and stand by your principles. If they think you're valuable they'll change their minds, if not, you're finished what ever you do.

corus

 

[SLTG]

Whenever I'm in this type of situation, I always think...well I could always beat the crap at'em if I want to but I don't have to.

Cheers,
SLTG

 

[ctopher]

I had a similar issue years ago. I told the management I will apologize if the manager that rudely interrupted my meeting and scolded at me apologized first. He said he has not at fault. I told him it doesn't matter, if you can't professionally talk to me, don't expect the same from me. The issue was dropped, and a few months later he was let go. I quit about 6 months later.

 

[denoid]

"Let them fire you and then go draw unemployment".

Before you do this, check with your state unemployment division. If I'm not mistaken, some states will distinguish if you quit, are let go for lack of work, and/or are let go due to disciplinary reasons. You may not be able to qualify for unemployment compensation in some areas if you get fired for discipline.

But basically, I agree with all else above who said that life is too short to put up with that kind of BS. Tidy up that resume and move on when you can.

 

[RDK]

Two things.

You do not want to have a firing on your resume. They tend to follow you around for a long time.

You also do not want to be unemployed while looking for work unless you are independently wealthy and if so then why are you working for wages in the first place


Apologize and start looking for work. Unless this is typical behaviour in the firm I’d write it off to the directors having a bad day. In a couple of months they will have had time to reflect on their behaviour and will not hold it against you in giving references.

Even if this was just a bad day for the directors, it does show their true personality and regard for the facts in making decisions. It still is not a good place to work.

Eat some humble pie now and look for a better place tomorrow.


Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com

 

[Maui]

What is most important to you, keeping your current job or standing your ground with the directors because you are being treated unfairly? If you apologize as demanded, you will keep your job, and this situation will be forgotten quickly. If you stand your ground, you run the risk of being terminated, or worse. By worse I mean that life at work could become very unpleasent for you depending upon how vindictive this director is. If you make the wrong guy angry, he can make your life hell. I have seen this happen where I am currently employed. It's not pretty.

Let me say that based upon what you have described, I believe that the director was wrong to confront your supervisor in front of you. A true professional would NEVER belittle an employee in front of his co-workers. It has been my experience that superintendants, vice presidents, and other upper level management who behave in such a manner are insecure. This can make them very volatile, and difficult to work with. The only way that I have found to consistently improve my working relationship with this type of personality is to improve the quality and level of communication between us. They tend to dislike surprises, especially unpleasant surprises. By keeping them informed, they don't get blindsided by a problem they never saw coming. And they tend to not blow up as much.

Let us know what you decide to do, and the resulting outcome. Good luck to you.


Maui

 

[MortenA]

I agree with most people here.

Go to the guy you talked (as far as i get it the 2. director) to and appologise for intervining where you should have kept your mouth.

It seems to me that he maily got pissed at you for questioning his judgement.

Then reconsider your future with this company.

Best regards

Morten

 

[GOTWW]

Do not do anything, Do not say anything, Just give them the "I got your number" look, & whatever do not, I say, do not offer any free help, or grudgingly give the minimum when ordered help to their little problems, avoid small talk at all cost, if forced. speak freakwently of their supervisor, or just walk away to the bathroom. Soon they will be scared of you.

 

[PSE]

Was this a common thing for this director to do? If so, I would think about a change in my work environment. When directors are that stressed out, it does not bode well for corporate vitality. If an isolated occurrence, concession might result in the director also (in their form), apologizing. At least you might find out what the problem was behind the director's explosion.

Regards,