Tilt up wall - Architectural wall section - house 1

[Bodgy Engineer]

Hi All,

Is there any resources on typical architectural wall sections for tilt up's?

I'm building a house, and am concerned about moisture getting trapped between the panel and the drywall.

This may be more an architectural question, but interested to see typical details, and how to fit them up.

Cheers

 

[Arp32]

Architect opinion…

A lot depends on your climate. My old firm built our office out of uninsulated solid grouted CMU, exposed on both sides with no overhangs. In a hard driving rain with wind, we’d sometimes see moisture on the walls, but it would dry quickly because it could evaporate to either side. But this is Phoenix, and we get less than 8” of rain annually. That wall might not have been able to dry for weeks at a time in other climates.

Once you start adding insulation and drywall, you reduce drying potential in that direction. Ideally you’d make sure it was vapor open. And you’d want to dehumidify the interior and keep the inside surface warm to avoid creating a condensing surface.

I only worked on one tilt up home (a Steven Holl come), that remodel was cancelled before it started but I’ll see if I can find the drawings.

You might look at Building Science Inc’s website for mass wall retrofits. They’ve done a lot of research on 100+ year old mass walls that suddenly developed issues when people started adding insulation and drywall on the inside.

-Jason, Architect

 

[dik]

This can be avoided with a proper 'rain screen' principle designed wall. This miinimises air pressure between the wet surface and the dry one.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[Arp32]

The exposed CMU was a feature, not a bug! You know, honesty of materials and stuff.

-Jason, Architect

 

[XR250]

I suppose the energy code did not exist back then?

 

[Arp32]

It was on the tail end of the UBC, I think. I was still in school when they designed it.

I know the electric bills were above average. It was built out of thermal bridges. Great office, though.

-Jason, Architect

 

[dik]

I suspect, not even close... no recirculating fans... is suspect the temperature at the ceiling is a lot warmer than the floor... and the huge amount of glazing and wasted ceiling space. It's gotta be a warm climate... but even AC costs can be out of site.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[Arp32]

Dik,

Very minimal west glazing (only the 16" wide, full height glass slots between CMU panels on the west). 8' deep Kalwall overhangs on the lower glass panels, operable Kalwall panels on the upper glass panels. As occupants, we could raise and lower the upper shades in the morning and lower them after lunch when the sun had passed. We rarely needed the lights except for task lighting at the desks for reading paper plans.

I guess "wasted space" is entirely subjective In any case, no one cared what the temps were at the ceiling berceuse, well, we didn't occupy the wasted space.

Sorry I hijacked the OP's question... My original point was solid concrete (or solid grouted CMU) will soak up water, which is probably only fine in a dry climate where the mass wall can dry to both sides. At least it was acceptable to us.

But yes the insulation has to go somewhere, which kind of defeats the purpose of tilt up (the fast erection time, and the fact that structure can be the finished wall in a warehouse environment). Once you fur out for drywall and electrical on the inside, and add insulation to either side, you lose the typical advantages of tilt up. And most of you probably have to have continuous insulation on the outside.

-Jason, Architect

 

[dik]

You should... you might be surprised how much heat you can lose through the roof, or heat gain if exposed to sunlight. It could account for higher heating or cooling costs.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[Arp32]

I recall comparing our electric bills to BOMA averages for office space, ours were something like 25% above the notional average per SF.

-Jason, Architect

 

[dik]

This could go up sharply in future...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[lexpatrie]

Focus people....

Is google broken?

First - the rigid insulation goes in the middle, just like those ICF foundations, and second, the square footage of a typical residence is not indicated for economy with tilt-up.

 

[XR250]

the rigid insulation goes in the middle, just like those ICF foundations,

Hmm, I thought by definition, an ICF has the insulation on the outside (as it is a form).
My last house I built was concrete sandwich panels with 2" of insulation in the middle built in a factory. Was not "tilt up" though.

 

[Eng16080]

the rigid insulation goes in the middle, just like those ICF foundations

I've done a lot of ICF foundations and the ICF blocks we used always had the insulation at the two outside faces (creating a hollow interior for the concrete to be poured). But perhaps there's some other product that I'm not aware of.

Seems like there are few (if any) structural materials which can provide both interior and exterior finished surfaces while meeting insulation (energy code) requirements.

 

[Bodgy Engineer]

Thanks all for the replies.


I will clarify a few points.
The house is for myself, so I'm not concerned with the typical building economy. I am trying to build it, in an efficient manner (for my situation).

Where I live, bricklayers are quite expensive, so if I go to a thin brick façade on panel, it is much cheaper.
Another benefit of this, is I do not get stuck in scheduling problems (i.e. having to stand frames prior to bricklayer etc.), and I can construct the panels over a longer period of time (say a year, whilst im still working as a stru. eng.).


I can prefab the timber framing as much as possible (which will be sourced from the property, so I'm not worried about timber costs too much). The house site is on an open paddock, so site access is not a concern.


The wall detail I'm thinking of is as follow's, I do not think it will give moisture problems. I will likely leave the panel joints open, to allow for drying. There will also be a wrap around veranda, so there will be no direct exposure to rain. [URL unfurl="true"]https://res.cloudinary.com/engineering-com/image/upload/v1703549400/tips/Note_26_Dec_2023_at_10_17_47_am_copy_lpide1.pdf[/url] Note: I left off structural details for clarity. The panels will be stable from roof bracing.

 

[Arp32]

Now that you have an interior frame wall,, it makes mle\re sense because insulation has a place to live.

That assembly would somehow need to address getting bulk water and vapor out of the gap. Below is a diagram from Building Science Corp with a similar concept.

Assuming you’re in a much colder climate if you have a vapor barrier.

-Jason, Architect