Tips on Electrical Power work 6

[firstoption]

not looking for specific design or anything.

I recently got my electrical engineering license, but I have little experience.
I'd like some tips or maybe a quick run down on what needs to be done.

For instance, if someone is moving his machinery from one warehouse to another, what would I need to do?
would wiring all need to be re-done at the new location?
Do I need to place new panels and sub-panels?
call out new protection devices for each motor, etc?


i'd appreciate any helpful tips

 

[wbd]

Wow, how do you get a license with no experience? In the USA, you typically need 5 years experience under a licensed engineer to be able to take the test. It may sound harsh but it sounds like you need to get some experience before designing anything

 

[wroggent]

Where do you live?

 

[firstoption]

Wow, how do you get a license with no experience? In the USA, you typically need 5 years experience under a licensed engineer to be able to take the test. It may sound harsh but it sounds like you need to get some experience before designing anything

I figured some one would give me the completely useless "tip" of getting experience.
I obviously did what was necessary to get licensed.
it may sound harsh, but try to read the question thoroughly enough to understand it before replying. I clearly said I have "LITTLE" experience, not "no experience".


All I need is a quick run down, if anyone is experience enough in the field to give me a quick breakdown.

 

[Sn00ze]

hmm You are asking for a really high level answer to a broad subject.

I am sure some of the most seasoned members here will be of more help than me but here's my two cents:

Every project is different, so to tell you what you need (panels, subpanels, protection) would not only be impossible, it would be irresponsible. Seems to me that you should know that much even at the entry level, let alone licensed level. Which is why wbd's answer is not entirely unprovoked.

Try narrowing down your question, there is no "across the board" answer for any one design.

My two cents.

 

[mcgyvr]

When we moved our production facility from one state to another we turned off power at the main.. Unbolted/disconnected anything that we could.. And brought it all down and reinstalled in the new building..
From transformers to bus ducts to all conduit runs and even sub and main panels..

So we left the old building bare and moved into a bare building and are "cheap".

But obviously if you can't remove/reuse then you must purchase and install whats needed for a safe/approved installation..

 

[HCBFlash]

Typically, you'd

- visit the old site before things are removed to see their process and equipment

- visit the new facility and make your own sketch or take good enough notes to make a layout drawing of the space, doors, point of utility service connections, etc.

- meet with the client to determine their idea of a good layout.

- give them simple drawings of multiple layouts, no less than 3, to determine their priorities and ability or willingness to pay the costs for attaining the layout that they can convince you will give them the most productive or cost-effective layout.

- produce a full set of scale drawings of your optimized layout, including electrical power one-line drawings, plan views of electrical equipment, mechanical (HVAC, plumbing, compressed air, etc).

Some engineers that do building construction type drawings also meet with owners representatives to review contractors bids, evaluate construction work during progress and prior to final payments and acceptance of the new installation, and if needed with AHJs if building or occupancy code issues arise.

The level of detail in any of your work and produced drawings, specifications, equipment schedules etc. is between you and your client: if they wish to select contractors that they have experience and business relationship with, they may only want minimal detail, but ask you to review mark-ups, contractors drawings, or ongoing work or RFIs. They may ask you to provide detailed drawings suitable for review by authorities and open bidding by contractors to build "to plan and spec".

What I say here should simply confirm or summarize your own experiences. At least until recently, I've had textbooks around which had similar summaries. "Lean" practices, "design-build" contracts and "fast track" construction methods have become commonplace over the last 20 years or so, but essentially are modifications of the simple outlined process each with its own goals and advantages.

.


Me wrong? I'm just fine-tuning my sarcasm!

 

[firstoption]

So i guess this is like, if we're talking about structural work, either being asked to design the whole building top to bottom or just review plans from an architect, correct?


The main thing here is deciding with the owner what exactly he needs from me.

I am confused about this though:

give them simple drawings of multiple layouts, no less than 3, to determine their priorities and ability or willingness to pay the costs for attaining the layout that they can convince you will give them the most productive or cost-effective layout.

what exactly will make it most productive or cost-effective?

cutting down on wire costs? i'm a little confused

thanks!

 

[itsmoked]

what exactly will make it most productive or cost-effective?

ALL customers have had to go pick and rent or lease the new place and they did that on the basis of their idea of how their 'process' could work in the new place. Most of the time they are either getting a bigger place so they can meet bigger production or a smaller place to run leaner in just the volume they need. In both cases they are the ones who must provide the general layout of the new facility, you can never do this right, so don't even try. They should show you generally what they have now and more specifically what their plan is for the new place. From that information and learning from them, you can then help the process by showing a design or a couple of designs that make economic sense of what they want in the place they're getting. From further discussions you can spiral in on a design that makes them functionally and economically satisfied.

I've seen it done two ways with regard to a production facility. 1) The whole thing is designed and fully modeled so all plumbing and electrical can be fully installed before a single thing is moved. This often costs more to implement with many more drawings and meetings but can save on less production interruption. or 2) Make sure the power needed is at the new facility and all plumbing is completed then everything is moved and a herd of electricians descends on the place for a 'conduit party'. They simply bring power to final positions that all the equipment is placed at. This method can be a lot less expensive overall, but will usually cost more down time as nothing can be immediately turned ON and there can be a few 'oh ohs' to work out.


Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[waross]

A smooth flow of material through the plant is important.
Look at the existing plant work flow.
There are always bottlenecks or limits on production.
Look at what process in the critical path limits through put. It may be a single machine that is too small.
This may be addressed by adding a second machine.
Look for unnecessary or awkward material handling or movement between work stations.
Try to design around bottlenecks or allow space for future adjustments.

Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter

 

[marks1080]

Just keep in mind that if you screw up and someone sues you please don't think the excuse of "Well I checked on eng-tips...." will work for you in court.

If you're asking these questions for general curiosity than great! That's what the forum is for. If you're asking these questions because you're in the middle of a project that you're figuring out you're not quite ready for, I don't believe an internet forum will get you through job properly.

 

[marks1080]

Good luck with your project I'm sure it will go well for you.

 

[HCBFlash]

Yes firstoption, you are indeed a little confused. I gave you a pretty good and patient answer, and benefit of the doubt, that you are not fishing or baiting here. I'm not so confused.

If you think material costs for wire is a substantial or even noticeable factor in typical cost/benefit analysis of layout of a production area in an industrial or commercial production facility, you don't understand what industry does, or why. This isn't school, and I'm not an instructor.

Good luck, you'll need it.

.

(Me,,,wrong? ...aw, just fine-tuning my sarcasm!)

 

[firstoption]

Yes firstoption, you are indeed a little confused. I gave you a pretty good and patient answer, and benefit of the doubt, that you are not fishing or baiting here. I'm not so confused.

If you think material costs for wire is a substantial or even noticeable factor in typical cost/benefit analysis of layout of a production area in an industrial or commercial production facility, you don't understand what industry does, or why. This isn't school, and I'm not an instructor.

Good luck, you'll need it.
.

thank you for the amazingly unprofessional and condescending response.

I am not involved in optimizing or designing any of their processes. The job is simply to wire the equipment.

If you don't have a useful answer, I'd advise you to remain silent rather than make inflammatory remarks. Not sure what world you live in where you think it is proper to insult someone for asking a question.

This isn't school, and I'm not an instructor.

if you think a few sentences giving a quick break-down is equivalent to attending a school, you're probably not the best person to give out advice.

 

[firstoption]

ALL customers have had to go pick and rent or lease the new place and they did that on the basis of their idea of how their 'process' could work in the new place. Most of the time they are either getting a bigger place so they can meet bigger production or a smaller place to run leaner in just the volume they need. In both cases they are the ones who must provide the general layout of the new facility, you can never do this right, so don't even try. They should show you generally what they have now and more specifically what their plan is for the new place. From that information and learning from them, you can then help the process by showing a design or a couple of designs that make economic sense of what they want in the place they're getting. From further discussions you can spiral in on a design that makes them functionally and economically satisfied.

I've seen it done two ways with regard to a production facility. 1) The whole thing is designed and fully modeled so all plumbing and electrical can be fully installed before a single thing is moved. This often costs more to implement with many more drawings and meetings but can save on less production interruption. or 2) Make sure the power needed is at the new facility and all plumbing is completed then everything is moved and a herd of electricians descends on the place for a 'conduit party'. They simply bring power to final positions that all the equipment is placed at. This method can be a lot less expensive overall, but will usually cost more down time as nothing can be immediately turned ON and there can be a few 'oh ohs' to work out.
Keith Cress

thank you very much for the help.
That is not at all what i'm involved in, but this post makes it clear to me what other services could be provided.

 

[wroggent]

You're getting negative responses because you should not simultaneously need to ask these questions and be licensed.

 

[firstoption]

You're getting negative responses because you should not simultaneously need to ask these questions and be licensed.

understood, but as any responsible professional, if i need to sub something out or hire someone for help, i will. This isn't even a project i took on, i just need info on maybe getting my feet wet in this area.


I had the same issues when i first started working with structural, which i could swear my first post indicated (moderators had to step in previously and remove people's posts. i suppose they edited mine or something)
I started off knowing nothing except textbook info, received tips, and now it's no brainer work.

Being licensed in electrical, i obviously must have some useful knowledge, no?