Tundish 3

[saad73joss]

Hello gents,

Please I m asking serious help

I want to design this odd beam called TUNDISH ( see the picture)

Would you please give me the adequat forum I can Post this subject

or giving me books .... anything can help me

I m used to designing spreader beams, lifting beams but not this monster

Ah the maximum load is 60 Tonnes

Many thanks and be kind with me LOL

 

[JohnRBaker]

It looks like you already have the info need to 'design' this thing. Or are you asking how one would verify that this 'monster' can actually support a load of "60 Tonnes" or not?

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[MintJulep]

the maximum load is 60 Tonnes

Applied where?

Reacted where?

 

[handleman]

OK, I had to Google "tundish". Your picture looks like it could indeed be a tundish. If you think a tundish is a beam you are way out of your area of practice. Get it designed by someone with that expertise or you are likely to kill someone.

-handleman, CSWP (The new, easy test)

 

[Ussuri]

Is the 60 tonnes actually 60 tonnes of molten metal?

 

[arunmrao]

Tundish is a flat bottomed vessel to receive molten metal fully open at the top and having a few holes at the bottom (to discharge the molten metal.). Generally it is specified as capacity to hold X tons of liquid metal.

The OP has provided us a detailed drawing of the vessel. Perhaps he is looking for design of tundish stand,which supports it. These can be designed quite simply on the shop floor,knowing the layout,of the tundish station,providing clearance for overhead crane movement etc.

_____________________________________
"It's better to die standing than live your whole life on the knees" by Peter Mayle in his book A Good Year

 

[Cockroach]

Actually, I believe Saad73Joss is looking to reverse engineer the lifting beam he refers to as the Tundish given in the JPG file. This is possible.

You essentially have the geometry and assembly configuration in final form. What you need to do is decompose this assembly into the various components and reverse engineer them to individual prints. In that, you specify the material composition and most likely source supply. You can also parallel your efforts by performing the Stress Analysis, either by hand or FEA, in order to ascertain performance of the piece. Once each piece has been analyzed, the parts are then re-assembled into the final product.

I do this all the time. What you need to do though, is study the assembly thoroughly and introduce change. In other words, you are forcing an improvement on the existing design. So you need to phone around and ask questions, what are the strengths and draw backs from the present form? Can you take advantage of material science to reduce the cost on that form? Can you increase performance or add functional features? You may need to research prior art and look at patent law for direction towards such improvements.

Suppose you get that far. Next step is to fabricate the assembly prototype and test it under controlled laboratory/shop setting. For this you need to have an idea of your local laws and look into qualification of the design. This most likely means you would have to get the design certified. Typically this is done inhouse by a Professional Engineer with a permit to practice in your Province or State. The work may need to be registered with an outside government agency, depends on your location. For usage outside your jursidiction, you would need to do this twice; in Canada there are grandfather clauses which permit cross Provincial referencing. But this is not the case in the United States for each engineering regulatory body is State run. The point is you should be familiar with the engineering law in your jurisdiction as well as that to where the assembly shall be used.

You're probably looking at about 450-600 hours of work. Depending on your labor rates, I would be adding about 35% more for fabrication over and above material cost. Then there is the qualification and certification expenditures. All said and done, maybe $250,000 not sure of steel prices for the supporting structure.

Hope this helps. Good luck with it, interesting project.

Regards,
Cockroach

 

[JohnRBaker]

Actually, I believe Saad73Joss is looking to reverse engineer the lifting beam he refers to as the Tundish given in the JPG file.

Even if that's true, does he really need to come to a forum like Eng-Tips to get that kind of help and advice? After all, if he has the finished weldment drawing and if what he claims is true, that he already knows how to design "spreader beams" and "lifting beams", you'd think that he could figure how to document the individual pieces which makes up this welded fabrication.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[dhengr]

I think you do need “serious help.” And, given the way you’ve asked the question, I don’t think you are going to get the kind of help you need from an internet forum or a few text books. As has been suggested, you need the help of, or to work alongside, an engineer who has experience in designing and building this type of steel mill equipment. This type of equipment is a whole different animal than a spreader beam or lifting beam, and is working in a whole different environment. There are entire careers and companies built around this type of equipment, and you may not be too smart thinking you can do this without some of their guidance.

 

[JohnRBaker]

That was the point I was trying to make, if this was what he NEEDED, he's got he's going to get from here. And if he doesn't have what he needs, then it's unlikely he's going to find it here since he's not given us the real story yet.

Sounds like this could be one of two different situations; either we have a 'contractor' here who was awarded a job that he's not qualified to do, or he's been handed this job by his boss who works for an organization that currently has no one on their staff qualified to engineer something like this. Now if it's the first case, he's just wasting our time and his customer's money and lets hope that someone comes to their senses before people get hurt, financially or otherwise. And if it's the second case, while we can feel sorry for the poor guy stuck in the middle, it would be better for everyone if he were to tell his management that this is beyond his skill set and encourage them to look for another way to get this done by proper professionals, either internally or by going out and hiring the services of an organization that is actually qualified to handle a job like this.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[saad73joss]

Hello everybody
Waw !!! what a Tsunami here
Calm down Mr JohnRBaker, i do not understand why I feel you upset !! really surprised.
Do you think I will design something by taking a risk !!!
Sorry, you do not know me so I just want to tell you sorry and If I were you I would say ( do not take a risk, it s not easy to design and advise you to submit it to an expert...) that s it !!!
You really shocked me but you do not need to be so Agressive.

I thank you and i thank Mr Crockroak for his help and all of you.

ok let me inform you about the story.

If I posted my question is to discover references , books .... any help Then I can progress and understand even if I will not do it but at least I do not feel ignorant.

it hapnned when i surf in other questions, some documents given here are so good... so see i m learning which it doens mean i m taking a risk

Actually i can confirme you that I designed spreader beam, lifting beam of 50 T capacity....

I worked in Technip designing Jack ups and i worked with Bechtel designing a large project in jamnagar in india....

So do not be afraid i m not taking any risk.

What i appreciate from those forums is that i can have documents i ignore completely because TECHNICAL books are so interseting which is not the case of french one.

So to let you informed I will design a spreader beam lifing the Tundish. The last one fully loaded with moled steel reachs 60 T.

I understand from the client that he wants me to design the lifing beam. And for the Tundish he asked me if we can optimise it becasue he has the drawings. So I agreed for the first mission and i asked him not to take any risk for the tundish since it s just one peace and it s not worth it to optimise it. and in case there is a problem with Tundish he will loose a lot of many by stopping the process of the whole factory for reparation and he agreed.

That the story

Again many thanks guys and for who are excited you dont need to be upset it s NOT MY PURPOSE at all.


Have a nice day and sorry for mistakes

 

[metengr]

Here contact these folks;

http://www.winkleindustries.com/content/products/mechanical/tundish-rigs.html