UNDERGROUND VS ABOVEGROUND DIESEL FUEL TANK FOR STANDBY GENERATOR

[nkyprianou]

I am working as a site mechanical Engineer in a Housing Project in Saudi Arabia (Hot and Humid Climate) which will accommodate more than 3000 people. We have 5 standby generators in the
project and each one is feeded by a built-in day tank and 1 diesel fuel storage tank (around 3000 gallons-11356 liters). According to the
specifications (copy attached) our main fuel storage tanks shall be of underground type.

Unfortunately one out of five tanks could not be installed underground due to civil construction
obstructions on the specific spot (it is an enclosed yard next to a sports complex where there are
HVAC Package units located near the tank 2-3 m close distance and around 15m
away from the Generator enclosure that is also in the same yard), also cannot be moved to another location.

My specific questions are:

1. Do you believe would be fissible to install the tank aboveground taking into account the above conditions?
2. Why the specifications of the site mention that the tanks have to be of underground type?
3. Are there any limitations on the capacity of the diesel fuel tank that can be installed above ground?
4. Can you give me any arguments/points to support the installation of the above mentioned tank above ground?
5. Can you send me written proofs from any specifications to support the installation of emergency/standby generator diesel fuel tank above ground?

Thank you in advance,

Regards,

Nicos








30.34.10 Fuel Supplies



(a) Main Fuel Tank



The main fuel tank shall have the capacity for 72 hours continuous operation of the generating set at full load.

It shall be of the underground type and shall be installed a safe distance from the engine generator set.

 

[BigInch]

You can put them above ground, as we did at this Saudi Aramco Bulk Plant outside of Abha. True its cooler there in Abha, if that's what you're worried about, but you will also find similar installations we constructed at Riyadh, Buraydah, Medinah, Jiddah, Yanbu and Jizan. Containment, safety and security regulations will have to be considered. Note the security fencing in the background. Paint them silver or white. Pipe temperatures can reach to 70ºC in the sun, so paint them white or silver.

VALVE STATION GENERATOR SET

BULK PLANT

"Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
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[JLSeagull]

BigInch,
I see that we have visited some of the same terra firma. The bottom photo resembles Najaran. Sorry for the sloppy shot at the spelling but I too have been to the bulk plants at Gasim/Buraida, Hoffuf, Karj, Tabouk both domestic and military, Riyadh refinery and old air base, AsSulyal, etc. Some air force bases use underground fuel bunkers.

Diesel outside attracts an oily dust layer. The underground installation helps to stabilize the temperature. However, small 1000 liter tanks are installed above ground at nearly every farm in the US and perhaps In Kingdom too. Gravity helps to move the product too. However, you need to check the delivery trucks to assure that they have pumps to accommodate above ground tanks. This could be an issue as many used to be gravity only.

I am working on a project near the arctic circle with above ground Diesel storage for standby generators. This seems problematic as really cold climates could gel the Diesel.

You may be able to install a temporary above ground installation. However, if the specification requires underground, the civil servants may not be willing to consider above ground storage. Follow the specifications if at all possible.

 

[BigInch]

JLSeagull,

Salamah Lakum! I was 10 years doing those, the pipelines and the underground bunkers. Bottom photo is the Abha Bulk Plant in the mountains near Yamen, but it could just as easily be Najran, Qassim, Buraydah, Al Karj, or .. those others you spelled right. They're pretty much Xeroxes of each other. Ya. There's some semi-official variation on spelling, but not that much. The only place I haven't been is Makkah. You need a green passport to go there.

Surprizingly the biggest problem in SA was besides the dust, the humidity in the coastal zones. 100% humidity at 57ºC is a whole lotta' water. Knocks down electronic parts within a month.

Right, diesel gels at high temps relative to the arctic. Needs heat tracing and steam heaters or other tank warming devices. blow torch, etc. Not a problem in SA.

Stay warm.




"Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
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[786392]

Dear Big Inch/JL Seagull Hello,
I was always wandering if I could find someone having rich expertise of that region.
Actually there was one of our 'Safety Stalwarts' Mr. M.B. Nathani (expired few years back) who had rich experience from Aramco and Use to talk a lot about it.
I joined as trainee engineer at my previous employers and still have greatest regards for that fellow.
I wonder if you people ever come across him!
More over he had highest regards for ‘Aramco engineering standards’ and ‘Refinery Practices’; many of those were used for setting-up our basics and proved really useful. He was a thorough brave professional with very clear/analytical mid and rich supportive skills as I knew and consider him my spiritual teacher in safety and fire protection.


Best Regards
Qalander(Chem)

 

[BigInch]

Unfortunately I didn't have the pleasure to meet your Mr. Nathani. I worked for a design/construct contractor to the SSSP, building storage plants and pipeline connections to SA refineries, marine terminals and bulk plants, so I was not directly employed by SAramco.

What agency/company are you building the housing project for?

"Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
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[786392]

Dear BigInch OK, Thanks!
I am not with any agency/company involved with building/ housing project(s).
I am astonished how you gethered this impression?

Best Regards
Qalander(Chem)

 

[quark]

Please check with the manufacturer about the height of the tank if you are returning the excess oil from the injector back to the day tank. You should facilitate gravity flow to the returning oil, as far as I know.

 

[BigInch]

786392 Didn't you say, "I am working as a site mechanical Engineer in a Housing Project in Saudi Arabia (Hot and Humid Climate) which will accommodate more than 3000 people." Sorry, my mistake. I suppose its something I really don't need to know.

"Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
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[786392]

My Dear BigInch,
Somehow you probably Mistook me against Mr.J L Seagull's previous Post(Containing bit of above quoted statement.
Request JL Seagull to correct if Iam wrong here please!



Best Regards
Qalander(Chem)

 

[BigInch]

No.. I see now that I confused U with the OP "nkyprianou". I'll go back to sleep now. I'm staying up too late watching the political debackles debates in the U.S.

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