usage of NX layers 1

[vja]

Hello all

I have a basic question about the usage of layers.

I am fairly a new user to NX ( 6 months of experience).Previously I am a solid works user for 2 years.

My work mostly involves analysis, so I draw my models and use synchronous tools extensively ( these tools are really awesome) to idealize them.

Now I am also going to draft them into shop drawings.We do have large assemblies.

My question is, in NX 7.5 there is show/hide feature.Still do we need to use layers to control the visibility or selectivity while drawing the model or in drafting? Can I manage with show/hide feature all the way from model to drawing without bothering with layers? For some reason I don't know I don't like the concept of layers.
I never used layers in solidworks. I am also not pro user of autocad ( I know there is a layers concept in autocad).

 

[JohnRBaker]

If you've gotten this far without using layers, and you've got experience using a system which was developed after layers lost their 'luster' to say nothing of their unique qualities, I wouldn't lose too much sleep worring that perhaps I should become more familiar with them.

I've been using UG/NX for nearly 35 years and at one time layers were almost the only tool we had to 'segregate' what back then was individual pieces of data, 'models' were made of lines and arcs and an occasional surface, but there were no solids, assemblies were basically parts merged together into a single files, Drawings were a collection of modeling views, etc. And since the resulting deliverable was almost always a Drawing, layers were absolutely necessary to manage the types and amount of data which made-up Drawings in those days. However, today there many more tools, such as Hide/Show, Embedded Sketches in Child Features, Components and Reference Sets, Assembly Arrangements, etc. that it's very possible to manage the visibility and availability of objects without having to depend on something which in my honest (and personal) opinion is as outdated as 'layers'. Now before anyone jumps down my throat, layers are still fully supported and will continue to be into the foreseeable future and there are still a few things which they may allow you to do which can and does have value. However, that being said, before I automatically took a lot of time worrying about Layer Standards, naming schemes, allocations, etc. I would look at the other more modern 'tools' first.

Anyway, I hope this helps and doesn't confuse you. And if anyone else out there, who's spending their time using NX in real-world production environments and you have your own opinions and advice, please feel free to give us your 2-cents worth as well.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[Toost]

If the decision stands between using "Hide/show" or "Hide/show and layers", i would say then use 2 layers, 1 Work and 2 invisible
Because "placing" an object on a different layer will keep it invisible ( If that is the purpose) and then the Hide/ Show can be used as a working tool to quickly hide/show things whilst working.
For example , i am designing something that needs a few surfaces, curves and a few datums to complete, whilst working it's nice to hide the datums I don't need for the moment and be able to as quickly show them again.
Then when that feature is completed and i start the next i can "permanently hide" by moving the surfaces/curves/datums to a invisible layer and allow the next feature use the Hide/show option.
2 Cents.

If my model starts becoming complicated, most often happens when creating freeform models, such that i have many surfaces built and trimmed from many curves each, it's kind of nice to be able to place the construction objects on individual layers such that i can make a specific set visible / isolate an area. See the attached image...


Regards,
Tomas

 

[jerry1423]

"However, today there many more tools, such as Hide/Show . . . "

This has been around since at least UG V5 (when I started), only under a differnt name "Blank and Unblank", unless you are speaking of hide/show in view.

 

[JohnRBaker]

Granted, the ability to perform a Hide (Blank) and/or Show (Unblank) has been around for 35+ years, but over the last couple of years we've added some additional ways of applying these, such as Show and Hide by type, Immediate Hide, Hide and Show Components in View, etc.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[DaSalo]

I have recently changed jobs and now use CATIA V5 full-time after spending several years as a full-time NX user. CATIA V5 does have layers but they are not nearly as fully developed as in NX and they are not all that commonly used, at least not in my industry. I have been absolutely amazed at how quickly I have been able switch from using layers extensively to not using layers at all. I don't miss them. Looking back I really wonder what I was using them for. They really are not necessary at all. I now use geometric sets extensively which are more or less analogous to grouping in NX. It works well for me and helps keep the tree neat and easy to understand.

CATIA V5 R20
PC-DMIS 2011 MR1

 

[JohnRBaker]

Yes, and now that 'Groups' can be managed and accessed from the Part Navigator they are much more useful in and of themselves, irrespective of whether it's just to help control what's visible and what's not. For example, in NX 8.5 there will be a new option to 'Import' points from a text file (several different formats are supported include .stl which could be very useful) and while these points are not created as features (that might be a bit much, since something like this could involve hundreds if not thousands of points) but each import operation will created the points as members of a unique Group. Now once there in this group, from within the Part Navigator you can select the Group, which is the same as selecting all the group members, in this case in imported points, for what ever operation you doing what allows the selection of points, such as Hide, Show, Fit a curve to the points, which has also been enhanced for NX 8.5 to support more than just Splines, but also allowing you to create a 'Best-Fit' Line, Circle/Arc, Ellipse, etc. And then there is the concept of Feature Groups which allows you make a Group 'Active' meaning that all the feature created until you change that designation will be created in that group and then again, like the points in a normal object group, you can now act on all the features in the group using a single selection.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[NeilMGW]

I tend to use layers for things like DXF's/DWG's and image files, everything else is either groups or show/hide

 

[eex23]

Layers in NX is the only way to work with 2D data. We design railway turnouts, and plan of the turnout is generated in 2D with grip program. It is very usefull, then you want tu make different views from one layout plan. just make layers visible/invisible in drafting.

 

[mmauldin]

Part of my job is creating one-off special surgical instruments. For these devices I usually create the components as separate bodies in one file rather than incur the overhead of separate component files. Easier to track model and track. When i need to draft the individual pieces, I place each on separate layers and use "Visible in View" to detail them either on individual sheets or on one large sheet. I especially like the one large sheet approach since only one item has to be tracked and the machinists can see all parts at once. That's pretty much all I use layers for.

 

[DaSalo]

mmauldin, I also worked exactly as you describe when designing tooling in a job-shop environment. This is how others worked at the shop so is how I initially learned. It took me quite awhile to move fully over to using assembly structure. Once I got used to it, and got my work flows established, I found that the software flowed much more smoothly and had a very clear, logical, and smooth progression. Drafting in particular worked very well for me using assemblies and not having to worry about layers and visible in view eventually sped up my work quite a bit. The workflow you describe can be very efficient but I always felt like I was swimming up stream against the will of the software designers. I think as the software develops this will only get worse. I am now in a situation where I work in an international collaborative environment and there is absolutely no contest as to which modeling strategy is easiest to jump right into and work collaboratively: Assembly structure with no layering wins hands down. I will also admit that having some sort of PLM system, like Teamcenter, really helps a ton as far as managing lots of components. If there are more than 3 or 4 people with access to the files it is pretty much essential.

CATIA V5 R20
PC-DMIS 2011 MR1

 

[wmalan]

We cam programmers LOVE layers. Especially when we have multiple revisions to a part with multiple cutting tool replacements due to the rev'd design. The options are endless for identifying which geometry is being addressed with which tool. Easy to rename, move, and set select-ability.

--
Bill

 

[cubalibre000]

Hi John,
can you explain the difference between group and sketch group.
Apart that sketch group can be created only in sketch environment, they have the same context command and behavior.
I would like sketch group as in Pro-E, SolidWorks and SolidEdge.

Thank you...

Using NX 8 and TC8.3

 

[JohnRBaker]

I don't understand your question. Since we already have Groups in a Sketch, what exactly is it that you're asking for?

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.