Using the Title Engineer Loosely 3

[FootNMouth]

I am a graduate engineer for a reputable structural engineering firm. My working title at the company will be graduate engineer until I become a licensed engineer. My gripe is that I see contractors place the title engineer on everything, i.e. project engineer, field engineer, etc. I understand that these people bring their own unique skills and are a pivotal role in the success of a construction project but is there no sanctity in the title engineer? We do not call everyone in the health industry doctors because there is an inherent respect for a person who has put in the time and effort to deserve that title. I will now step off of my soap box but I just wanted to see if there was similar discontent in the "engineering" community.

 

[TheTick]

This cheese is old and moldy.

 

[Jboggs]

In many jurisdictions it is illegal to have the word "engineer" in the name of a company unless there is indeed a licensed engineer on the staff. I know several companies that had to pay large fines and change their name. But no such restriction exists on the use of that title in individual job descriptions that I'm aware of. Sad, but true.

 

[IRstuff]

If you really don't have anything better to do with your time and you don't care whether you make enemies, then, by all means, you should report all them bastiches to your state board.

I should point out that we have a local company called, "Lawn Doctor," and "doctoring" a document is not a thing to be proud of.

TTFN
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Of course I can. I can do anything. I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

 

[Latexman]

Sanitation Engineer = garbage man/woman. That's the ultimate insult.

Good luck,
Latexman

Technically, the glass is always full - 1/2 air and 1/2 water.

 

[rotw]

When will come the moment where you need to defend your pay check in the real arena, it will all come down to a simple basic question: you know or you don't know how to the thing and you cannot cheat; this is the crude truth.

At that very moment your title whatever it is - will make for you no difference.


"If you want to acquire a knowledge or skill, read a book and practice the skill".

 

[IRstuff]

seems to me that there's some modicum of nobility in doing the necessary stuff other people find to be too disgusting to do. For that, I can tolerate them getting some love.

In general, most people recognize that such labels are farcical, just as no one would even remotely think of asking the "Lawn Doctor" to check out their uvulas. And, this is apparently the lesson that we seem to be imparting to our descendants, that labels define us and have extra meaning and we have no self-worth without such labels? Xerox and "Chicanos" and others have successfully demonstrated that these types of labels are too easily suborned for other purposes, and to try and control the usage of such labels is truly an exercise in futility.

TTFN
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Of course I can. I can do anything. I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

 

[metengr]

I knew a fellow graduate engineer that went by the title "The Boiler Doctor" in my previous company. What a stitch, I always asked him where is "The Boiler Nurse?

 

[SNORGY]

You might read this thread - and other referenced threads - on this topic.

Over the past several days, I've learned that there is neither any sense nor positive outcome in expressing an opinion on this subject, unless your aim is to invite arguments.

thread730-374748

 

[desertfox]

I don't mind what title a company gives me so long as they pay me what I think I'm worth

 

[Ron]

Snorgy, you're exactly right as usual, but since I've never been accused of being particularly bright, I can't resist this one....

First, to ddudley88....kudos to you as a younger engineer for recognizing the threat this can be to our profession.

Indiscriminate use of the term "engineer" is a problem that even the licensing boards don't properly recognize. In certain disciplines of our profession, having a degree in engineering does not give one the right to call themselves an engineer. Many state laws, as jboggs pointed out, protect the term "engineer" and its variants. This is necessary as many pseudo-engineering or related technical "trades" routinely usurp the term "engineer" to imply that they are have more to offer than they actually have.

There are legitimate uses of the term "engineer" by non-licensed engineers. As far as I know, each state in the US recognizes exempt industrial classifications of engineers who are not required to be licensed but are truly engineers in their education and function.

As for the licensed professional engineers, this is usually where the rub takes place. If you offer engineering services to the public at large, without regard to the discipline, all states in the US require licensing so as to protect the health, safety and welfare of the public. This is a good thing. These are the engineers who are known to the public (civil, structural, mechanical, electrical, metallurgical, welding, etc.) and are required to meet requirements of the state's laws for qualifications to practice in the public realm and are held to practice standards that all licensed engineers must meet. When an air conditioning company that employs only air conditioning mechanics (not mechanical engineers specializing in HVAC system design)calls themselves "Air Engineers" or similar, they are usurping the term "engineer" to imply to the public that they have qualification they don't actually possess. The public views engineers as being a bit smarter than the average bear, so to exploit this public perception of engineers is perpetuating a fraud upon the public.

Ok...I'll get off the soapbox before I really get started!

 

[GHartmann]

I am in favor of holding the term "engineer" to a higher standard. Most states already have laws to prohibit companies and individuals from practicing engineering without a license. Unfortunately it probably takes some extremely bad behavior or incidents to have a cease and desist order brought into force.

I suppose I am not offended by the term software engineer for example. I know those folks have some degree in computer science or electronics that I can respect.

In my own discipline I have a harder time with a process engineer being associated with a mechanical tooling process rather than a chemical process. But I suppose that's not very fair to the guy designing tooling operations.

In Georgia it's fairly simple:
Have a degree / obtain EIT / obtain experience / pass exam / obtain PE

OR

obtain equivalent experience / pass exam / obtain PE

As SNORGY stated it's really pretty straight forward

 

[SomptingGuy]

Ron's post contains the phrase "offer engineering services to the public at large", which isn't something that happens much (if ever?) in any job I may take as a Mechanical Engineer. My services are most likely to be for an OEM or for a supplier to an OEM. The OEM's products are subject to local standards and laws that are in place to watch out for the "health, safety and welfare of the public".

The public need not know who Santa really is. We are just elves.

Just adding to the noise...

- Steve

 

[Jboggs]

SomptingGuy: Look in the Yellow Pages and you will find a lot of companies that do indeed "offer engineering services to the public at large". I have worked for several of them, and owned one myself. It's pretty much impossible to get anything significant built without the services of one or several "engineering companies", especially since most jurisdictions require drawings for buildings and infrastructure projects be stamped by a licensed engineer.

 

[BUGGAR]

I just had a new wood floor installed. Only they don't use wood anymore. They use "engineered" wood, which is really just plastic with an impregnated wood veneer finish.

Since it was "engineered" I asked the flooring installer for substantiating engineering calculations. I quoted State law regarding engineering to him and demanded appropriate documentation for his product.

I was able to get him to substantially reduce his price. After it was installed, of course.

 

[1gibson]

In all of these threads, I've never seen anyone bring up the use of capitalization. Seems simple to me, "Engineer" is an Engineer. "engineer" is sanitation, software, sound, and others.

Might look a little funny on business cards with a lowercase e, but then again, that is the whole point.

I guess you get the capital E if you drive a train.

 

[Maui]

ddudley88, you might want to read this other discussion that is taking place in another forum, since it directly relates to what you have asked:

thread730-374748

Maui

 

[Signious]

@ BUGGAR

Man you hosed that flooring installer. Engineered Hardwood is called so in the same way any LVL, LSL, Glulam ext... wood product is called Engineered.
I sold / installed the stuff for my dads shop for years - it is a dream to install but hell on saw blades. Usually runs a pretty price as well.
It is basically 5/8" LVL with a veneer put on, with the benefit of low thermal and moisture expansion. Calcs and spec sheets on the properties are readily available from the manufactures.

 

[Signious]

If there was any plastic (besides a 1/8" layer of pre attached underpaying) then you didn't get engineered wood - you got laminate

 

[KENAT]

Wow, this topic had been fairly quite for a while and then 2 threads in a week or so.

I probably put more than enough dead horse emoticons in that other thread to cover this one too but just to summarize one of my main points.

Before trying to regulate who gets to use the term Engineer, we should really try to come up with a meaningful definition of what an engineer is - something that has escaped the membership of this site before.

Jboggs, Somptings point was that there are entire sub fields within mechanical engineering away from the construction industry that rarely if ever offer their services to the public.

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