Utility level engergy storage solutions/new batteries, etc

[johnsmith12]

I am trying to find resources or data regarding large energy storage. I originally posted in the battery section but notice there has been no activity in that forum for over a month so thought I might post a link in hopes of some feedback on my situation.

http://eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=286355&page=1

 

[potteryshard]

In what context are you thinking of storing energy? There is a tremendous amount of information available readily available in regard to underground compressed air storage, pumped hydroelectric storage, and superconducting ring storage has recently been commercialized and marketed. Batteries are extensively used for UPS energy storage, and many are working on flywheels, supercapacitors, and any number of other technologies. Each has its own set of conversion inefficiencies, equipment costs, and other related drawbacks.

 

[johnsmith12]

Certainly not fixated to any one source of storage at this point. Obviously DC electric battery storage is the most exciting just due to simplicity and use but cost will likely blow us clean out of the water.

We are primarily looking for solutions that we can innovate in our shop to reduce installation costs. level of automation or attention will also be a consideration. I am just having a heck of a time finding good forums and such for this stuff at an engineering level.


I realize there are several ways to sync power but using that energy will likely be very difficult. For instance, the air system would require a HUGE tank and would need to likely run a turbine system. overhead water storage also represents a huge financial investment.

 

[dpc]

Batteries would be the only remotely feasible technology. There are no good storage solutions. If there were, you'd already know about them - it isn't like there is a conspiracy to restrict application.

Excuse me for being blunt (but it's Monday): You have to decide if you want to run a business or just sort of mess around with stuff. If you are set on this particular site, you'll have to live with the power available, pay for three-phase service, or put in a generator. Maybe you can run it on bio-diesel and use the waste heat for something useful.

 

[ScottyUK]

Sounds like a great application for pumped storage hydro. Kansas is really flat though, isn't it? Maybe a longer-than-average penstock over to the Rockies...?


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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[potteryshard]

In your original question, you use the term "large power" which implies utility-level power storage making the construction of a suitable lake or purchase of a depleted gas field and construction of associated power plants an expected part of the equation.

This is why I was asking for more explanation regarding purpose, scale, voltage and current levels... at what point on the continuum between Everready and Three-Mile Island are we talking about?

 

[LionelHutz]

Sounds like a pipe dream to me (No comment Scotty ;-))

250kVA is no small amount of power to source, even if only momentarily.

Basically anything that makes logical and financial sense to store large amounts of power and be able to use it easily.

Honestly, there are no solutions that fit this requirement. Why do you think all industrial back-up solutions still involve a genset?

 

[jimkirk]

Molten salt?

http://www.sandia.gov/Renewable_Energy/solarthermal/NSTTF/salt.htm

for example.

 

[rbulsara]

What is wrong with storing the energy in form of fuel (diesel) and using a generator as you need it?

Rafiq Bulsara

http://www.srengineersct.com

 

[jraef]

Bloom box perhaps? You will still need a fuel source, but maybe use wind when available to generate hydrogen from water (assuming you have water)? I think these things are going to open up a whole new era of availability of power in remote areas.

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[cranky108]

Why not a small boiler fueled by wood waste, to run a steam turbine and a generator.

You can even use the low grade waste heat to dry the wood.

 

[KiwiMace]

You are probably heading towards a combination of wind and/or solar with a diesel generator and then using economic tools to tradeoff options for the optimum amount of battery storage.

I doubt that getting a suitable 3ph feed run in would be as costly as all this plant.