V5 in unix or PC?

[AXXX]

Hi all,

We are using here a mixed platform to run V5.
PC boxes outperform unix ones by 1:6 in a production environment.
IT still prefer unix because of an unspecified reason, maybe cultural, maybe they don't know how to justify designers preference for PCs.

Any other folks with these sort of experience that want to share the pain it is to persuade people that WIN boxes are a viable platform for serious engineering work?
Cheers

 

[JuhaEdag]

I agree Unix is very stabile However using v5 windows is much, much better.
It's faster, you can use Excel sheets in combination with Catia (I don't know if you can under an Unix environment).
Even in Unigraphics NX and NX2 windows outperforms the unix environment.
I see little reason to choose expensive Unix machines I rather bitch about the crashes in windows than change to an Unix environment it's sad but true!!

 

[catiajim]

We are running primarily on Unix because we are using VPM. Yes, there is a Windows client for VPM, however we chose to make one change at a time. Our users were already used to the Unix VPM Client, so we chose to only throw V5 at them this time around. Soon, we anticpate making the change to the Windows VPM Client as well.

The biggest reason that our Administrators prefer Unix is that it is much easier to administer. All of our boxes are identical, rolling out fixes and updgrades is easier, and we have a number of jobs that run remotely on unused workstations. Repeating all of this on a Windows Platform is much more dificult - especially when you have 1,000 workstations.

 

[AXXX]

Hi catiajim,

I think since we are in the business of designing aircraft, not in the boxes admin business, so the priorities should be to simplify designers jobs and not make administrators life easier.
We have identical PCs so the admin job shouldn't be that more difficult.
I think this is more a cultural issue amongst the admin community; they don't want to do more even though the business as a whole benefits.

Cheers

 

[JuhaEdag]

Hi.
I"m not really a system guy (I should ask my brother and I will next time I talk to him) but can't you run v5 on PC's and store your data in VPM later when you have finished your design (for release) in Unix servers.
I would also be interrested to know if you could mix systems like Catia and UG.
I have seen a Catia environment using Iman (which is an EDS system) I have no Idea how they did it though I just saw it in a company when I was there for a business trip?
Is the VPM (database) dependent of OS (Win-Unix) or Cad-systems(Catia-Ug-Ideas etc)???
Like I said I'm not a system guy but I think we should try to make it faster for the users and Windows is faster(why I don't know, perhaps better architechture or optimized by programmers to Win) and why would they develop UG and Catiav5 for Windows succesfully (it is really that much faster!)if companies won't use it.
I was happy with Unix but after tried it on Windows I think Unix versions of Catiav5 and UG NX sucks!!!!!!!!
It's Sad but True (qouting Metallica). I'm not very happy about the Win monopoly but the Unix environment doesn't give much choice (What have they done to piss off EDS and Dassault??).
Regards
Juha

 

[catiajim]

VPM will work on both Windows and Unix, but the interface on Windows is completely different. Since we were changing CATIA for them, we felt it best to leave them with the VPM interface that they were comfortable with. We also had significant problems getting the Windows VPM connection to work properly - we started this program 22 months ago.

As for the Admin headaches, it has more to do with tracking an pushing V5 fixes than it does configuration, although they both get into it. When you are dealing with 1,000 workstations, but only have 5 CATIA Admins, administration tasks become a major issue. Maintaining the same version of CATIA, with all of the same patches and fixes is of primary interest to the users as well.

It's not something we can't (or won't) overcome. We will be moving to Windows, but we need to establish some proceedures and infrastructure changes to provide this tracability.

 

[AXXX]

So, it seems fair to conclude that Win boxes are far superior in terms of performance to unix ones.
Another excuse I've heard to defend the unix cause is that unix architecture is based on 64 bit and potencially should be faster; it is indeed a pity that V5 was written to run on 32 bit...

PDM availability on PC is another excuse; we are aware of VPM drawbacks with V5 even in unix!
Plaform interoperability is another; we are doing design work on PCs and vaulting on Unix without problems.

I can't understand why it should be so complicated to develop a reliable PC based PDM tool; as far as I am concerned proper code will run on either.

Is there anything sinister about all this, or is is just bad luck that industry didn't adapt quick enough to new technology and we are still relying on an antiquated infrastructure buildt around unix?

 

[JuhaEdag]

I think you're right the industri is not that fast to adapt they are conservative but many industries have changed look at Maya, Alias a lot of companies has changed to PC environment.
Also PC hardware should be much cheaper than Workstations for UNIX and even a mediocre PC today outperforms an Unix station when it comes to Catia v5 why I don't know?
Also I have seen that Unigraphics is taking the same path most new UG NX stations today seems to be Win based and all the users of UG that I have met says the same thing it's much faster under a win environment why?? The Unix boxes are so expensive!! why are they not able to compete?
I know that the win security is a concern for many companies though. Of course many of the big companies also have a large amount of Unix workstations so it takes time (and money) to replace them .