value of recycled motor oil vs crude

[ivymike]

apparently the auto parts store down the street pays somebody to remove and recycle the used motor oil they collect. I would have thought that the cash flow would be in the opposite direction.

If you had a barrel of crude (say WTI for grins) and a barrel of used motor oil sitting side by side, which would have the higher value?

 

[BigInch]

When you speak of commodities, the price depends on volume and ease of transport. If you have 10,000 units one place, the value is higher than if you have the same amount in 10,000 places. The exact opposite of Coca Cola. And somebody with 1,000,000 units can beat your unit price, if you only have 10,000. With used oil, after you get past all the time and money spent on driving around collecting it, storing it, processing it, storing it again, packing it and finally delivering it, and ultimately selling it, there's nothing left in it for you.

I found this at

http://www.synlube.com/usedoil.htm,

summary of which is,

Only 2.5 quarts of lube oil Basestock are produced from 42 gallons of crude oil (One barrel), is because there is very little relative demand for lube oil when compared to Gasoline or Diesel.

Not ALL of the crude oil can be converted into either Gasoline or Diesel. 100% of Crude Oil, cannot be cost effectively converted into 100% of any of the desirable "fractions" and therefore there will always be some percentage of the barrel that can be utilized ONLY for lube Basestock. Some of this undesirable stuff is heavy oil, from which ONLY lubricants can be economically made.

There is presently far more low-grade crude oil stock available than the world needs and this is perfect for making lube oil. More and more of lube stock is available daily!
To make matters worse. As modern vehicles use LESS oil each year, and are driven more so they burn MORE fuel, but use LESS motor oil in the process.
The lube oil stock essentially becomes a worthless commodity, which becomes a nuisance to get rid off!

In the old days, if there was too much of an undesirable petroleum by-product left from the refinery stream, the oil was burned, or pumped back into abandoned oil wells. Either practice has however since about 1985 been illegal in the USA. To export unneeded motor oil Basestock to other countries for dumping is way too expensive, except if you are very close to MEXICO. A really BIG Oil Company like EXXON-MOBIL does not even consider motor oil Basestock to have any value. Their FINISHED Petroleum Motor Oil is sold almost for the cost of the packaging or the cost of transportation. They can and do beat every other motor oil in the market place that is of the SAME quality level in price, every time! That is reason why companies like "Pennzoil - Quaker State" spend over $47 million annually on advertising to promote their lube products and hope that consumers will buy their more expensive oil because they perceive it as "better".

Since production of Motor Oil from "recycled" Basestock is time consuming, expensive and not appreciated by consumers (used must worse quality), so far every business venture has collapsed or had to depend on heavy government financial subsidy.

Apparently the U.S. Post Office, which operates more vehicles in the USA than any other entity, must use Motor Oil made from Recycled Basestock for "at least" 20% of their vehicle needs. Because the "recycled" motor oil is so much more expensive, the "operating" costs for the U.S. Post Office fleet have doubled.




**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world’s energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies)

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[JJPellin]

Used lube oil would be in the gravity range of gas oil. Internally, we value gas oil at about $30 per barrel. Crude oil (WTI) is closer to $70 per barrel. The problem with used motor oil is that it is classified as hazardous waste. This places a lot of environmental restrictions on how it can be stored, transported and processed. I work in a large oil refinery. We have an extensive fleet of trucks and generate a large volume of used motor oil. We are not allowed to recycle our used motor oil into our crude oil feed. We could easily process this oil into gasoline in our FCC. Instead, we are required to pay someone to haul it away.

Johnny Pellin

 

[BigInch]

This article would seem to suggest a new "green energy" market dynamics has come into existance and that "externally" the value of rerefined motor oil is $231/bbl (at least to some people), so if anybody does collect it and rerefine it, I they would be foolish to market it as fuel oil.

http://www.kingcounty.gov/operations/procurement/Services/Environmental_Purchasing/Products.aspx

In 2008, the county purchased 106,000 gallons of re-refined oil, primarily 15w40 and 10w30, at a cost of approximately $545,000.

http://your.kingcounty.gov/procurement/blanket_supply/B19416B.PDF

550 gal 15W40 $5.45/gal $2997.50 total price
1000 gal 10W30 $5.51/gal $5510.50 total price


**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world’s energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies)

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[ivymike]

I'd have thought that you could at least filter it and blend it w/diesel to reduce your fuel bill, "hazards" aside. I've definitely seen garage heaters which run on used motor oil advertised (that'd be nice in MN, but not in TX).

That synlube page must have their figures wrong. There's no flippin' way that 40% of used motor oil is poured in the backyards or down the drains across america... not without a vast conspiracy between oil change shops, anyway. I'm probably one of 5 or 6 people on my block (out of hundreds) who changes his own oil, based on the number of times I've seen other people at it. Nearly everyone goes to a quick oil change place ... and I can't imagine they'd get away with dumping for long.

 

[BigInch]

40-45% is a common range of number on a lot of websites. I think I saw it on an EPA site too. Maybe your neighborhood isn't a good "representative" sample for that type of data.

**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world’s energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies)

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[jmw]

Use as a fuel appears one approach.
At one time used motor oil would be "dumped" in heavy fuel oils for marine use but this is not a good idea and the new ISO 8217 2005E standard includes tests for marker properties to detect and prevent this.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[jmw]

Just organising my bookmarks and came across this article on reprocessing used lubricants:

http://www.cwc.org/industry/0951rptwb.htm

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[rmw]

I think the figure might be 40-45% of oil from self oil changers and I think it may have been accurate 20 years ago. I doubt it is that high today and I think the 'ivymike's' of the world who change their own oil are dwindling with the advent of quick change places. I used to, but why bother with all the mess and the disposal problems (different today now that your neighbors can see you pour it down the sewer and call some do-gooder or the other to come out and get into your face) when you can get it done so cheaply at the quick change.

I knew of a small refinery some years back that thought they could augment their production by taking in used motor oil and they found out quickly that there was a lot of nasty stuff in that oil from both the remnants of the additive package and the products of combustion blow by. It ripped them a new one until they abandoned the idea.

rmw

 

[jmw]

I wonder what is happening to it now the analysis of Heavy Fuels Oils is supposed to stop it being dumped in them?

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[BigInch]

The heavy metals have to be filtered out in a clay bed or soemthing first. That apparently takes time.

Then of course you must dispose of that clay bed every so often.

**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world’s energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies)

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[unclesyd]

Several states are requiring that used oil filters be disposed of properly, not in the garbage.
In one state where this is required a gentleman went into the business of collecting used oil filters. He built a truck to hold the filers and dripping oil as well as drums full of filters. His initial plans were to run the used filters through a chipper separate the metal components to sell as scrap. Drain the oil from the filter media by gravity and a press and sell the oil to a recycler and land fill the media. This process didn't work.
First as noted above the waste oil was classified as hazardous waste and the recycler wouldn't touch it due to the heavy metal content. The scrap people didn't want the oiled scrap. All his facilities had to be in area that could be drained to a sump with an oil separator. His trucks had to have hazardous waste permits. The landfills didn't want his filter media unless he used a hazardous waste facility at around $600 per 55 gal. drum plus transportation.

He has since started using a Pyrolysis Oven to process used filters. I don't know whether it's the whole filter or the discharge of the chipper. All the oil he collects from the filters is filtered through a clay media and when the clay is spent it too is sent through the Pyrolysis Ovens leaving only the contaminated dry clay. I understand now that he is able to get a metal dross from the oven during the pyrolysis cycle that is he is able to sell. After the pyrolysis step the clay is reusable by the filter. The oil from the filtration step is processed by a recycler, though he uses some of it to make hot water to heat the oil for filtration step. The only thing that requires disposal now is the clay after it's spent. The last I heard was that he is trying to convert his pyrolysis ovens to oil fired so he can use some of the recovered oil instead of NG.

 

[BigInch]

Gotta' be an easier way to make a buck.

**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world’s energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies)

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[ivymike]

Another shop told me over the weekend that they are in fact paid for their used oil.. and (he happily noted) they're allowed 15% contamination by volume, so they put their used coolant and trans fluid in there too.

 

[BigInch]

Obviously illeagle use/disposal going on there. OK, surprize me.

**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world’s energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies)

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[unclesyd]

I don't think the Willimson Family is still running around the country so the market for burnt lub has dried up.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/direct...on/publications/brochures/HomeRepairScams.pdf

 

[jmw]

UncleSyd, I thought the "travellers" were just a UK phenomenon ... so they up and moved to Texas - want the rest of them?

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[unclesyd]

The Travelers are all over the country. They are not as bad now as they once were due to better communication. The Williamson's I referred to are descendants of "Terrible Williamson" who came to the US from Scotland around 1890.
In the 50's and 60's they would gather for a couple of weeks near my home town every fall to rest and replenish their suppliers. They would get drums of by products from the local coal byproducts plant, residue and plain used oil from a motor oil recycling plant, and marble or chalk dust. They would mix these materials to make roof repair stuff, asphalt resurfacing stuff, asphalt crack repair stuff.

The oil recycling plant at one time refined used oil for the Greyhound Bus Company who was the biggest user of recycled motor oil.

Anecdotal,

Just last week we had people come by and want to asphalt my gravel driveway with a fast setting material that you could drive on after one hour. I didn't get in on the pitch but my wife and neighbor caught the guy in the yard before he could get to the door and listened to him. This the first time in about 10 yrs they have passed through this area. I called the Sheriff when I heard about it. I was told later that I wasn't the first one to call in about this.