Vehicle selective snake oil?

[winfieldblue]

While reading a caution on Ebay concerning various "add ons" that claim to increase fuel mileage,(

http://reviews.ebay.com/Hydrogen-Generator-Economy-Device-SCAMS_W0QQugidZ10000000005261775

) I came across this comment from the mechanic who was issuing the warning, Quote "I have run a "Smacksbooster" cell in a Jeep Cherokee 4.0L. I was able to maintain a steady 25-30% increase in economy with a MAP enhancer. If you want to build a cell, build this one, it is fairly cheap and requires no special parts best of all if you use KOH (potassium hydroxide) and distilled water it typically requires no cleaning or maintenance except for adding water. UPDATE: I have tried the Smacksbooster setup on a 1998 Subaru Outback 2.5 DOHC. My trip was from Salt Lake City, UT to Portland, OR, 1600 miles roundtrip. I was unable to get an increase in mileage at all. In some cases, I saw a drop of my usual mileage. I have made this trip without the generator before and recorded all mileage readings. My conclusion is either it is impossible to trick the engine ECM or that the load put on the small engine is equal or more than the efficiency obtained. UNQUOTE. I'm inclined to think that this mechanic may have a vested interest in this particular hydrogen booster, but am also wondering if the hydrogen could boost engine efficiency just as the addition of small amounts of L.P.G. can apparently boost the efficiency of certain diesel engines!

 

[Lou Scannon]

yeah right

 

[GregLocock]

Yup, hydrogen can improve the efficiency and/or emissions of some IC engines. Real proper engineers have worked on this.

However bits of old fish tank and stuff you find in your local hardware store bolted onto your personal car are unlikely to provide the same gains, especially since you can't recalibrate the engine properly.

ivymike tried one of these hydrogen devices, perhaps he will publish the results here.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[ivymike]

I think I did publish them here previously... the short of it was that there was no discernible difference in fuel economy when using the device vs. when not using it. I had several years' fuel consumption records from before the device was installed, about 10 wks' records with it installed (say 6 tankfuls) and then a few tankfuls after it was removed.

I paid about $100 for the device, and I'd be happy to sell it to you to recover a portion of that if you'd like to try it. It DOES make plenty of hydrogen and oxygen...


by the way, the aforementioned "MAP enhancer" is almost certainly considered illegal tampering with the emissions control system (US EPA).

 

[winfieldblue]

Thanks for replying to a topic that has been brought up previously, I am trying to increase the power/efficiency of my 3 litre 93 isuzu diesel, which has indirect injection. I was hoping that a small amount of hydrogen/oxygen piped to the intake might help by speeding up the burn time of the air/fuel mix. I run it on vegetable oil instead of diesel,so lose a bit of power, which I am trying to regain without spending a fortune! I don't know if the hydrogen/oxygen mix would be a suitable additive for a turbo diesel that has a 19-1 comp. ratio anyway, maybe I could advance the injection timing a tad instead, but don't want to damage the head gasket/engine by pushing my luck too far! Ivymike, thanks for the offer but the freight cost to Australia would be prohibitive!

 

[patprimmer]

I would think if the addition of relatively small amounts of oxygen and hydrogen to the inlet charge did in fact:-

1) Not ignite until more fuel was injected.
2) Significantly increased the rate of combustion when fuel was injected.

You would then need to delay the injection point to gain the benefit of faster combustion.

Regards
Pat
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[winfieldblue]

Good points Pat, which has me wondering how the currently available L.P.G./diesel systems work when our mix of propane and butane has an octane rating just north of 100! I've killed 3 or 4 petrol engines with inaudible pre-ignition while running straight l.p.g.,I don't see how the inducted l.p.gas can't ignite before the diesel is injected when subjected to the higher compression ratio of a diesel engine.

 

[patprimmer]

I think if the charge is lean enough it does not ignite, hence the maximum safe limits for amount of LPG injected.

Regards
Pat
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[ivymike]

yep

 

[winfieldblue]

O.K. If at normal engine operating temperature I drive down the road a few times , at differing engine speeds, I should be able to cut the power supply to the injection pump (to shut off the injected fuel supply) and not have any combustion happen if I have a suitably lean mixture of either L.P.G. or hydrogen/oxygen going into the engine through the intake, while being aware that differing atmospheric conditions will change the definition of "suitably lean mixture!..... or not? Would I be able to hear or feel any combustion events taking place with such a small amount of fuel?

 

[patprimmer]

I think a very lean LPG mixture will not self ignite. I am not so sure about hydrogen air mixtures. I would presume the extra oxygen is very little compared to the oxygen available from the air.

Regards
Pat
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[BigClive]

What about nitrous oxide in a diesel? A small amount should work OK.

 

[ivymike]

the reason for lpg is that it adds fuel - you have plenty of excess air in a diesel. nitrous is used to supplement the air in a gasoline engine.

A diesel can be run continuously on gaseous fuel, and you can cut diesel fueling significantly when you supplement w/gas. There are a number of kits on the market for industrial/drilling/fracking engines to do just that, to reduce fuel expense. Nearly all of these require about 3%-5% of the energy to come from diesel, to allow properly timed initiation of the combustion event (in place of a spark plug). You won't be able to reliably run the engine without the "pilot" injection of diesel unless you have a very specially designed engine (look up HCCI).

 

[winfieldblue]

I wonder if these kits are designed for later, more advanced diesel engines that run a milder 16-1 compression ratio .I am also thinking that the American version of L.P.G is probably pure propane, where our (Australian) l.p.g. is spiked with butane which lowers the octane rating of the gas. I might do some googling!

 

[ivymike]

the kits for drilling engines allow operation on "field gas" which ranges broadly in composition but has the benefit of coming out of the hole essentially free of charge.

 

[winfieldblue]

Free fuel....hmmmm doesn't fuel get taxed over in the U.S.A.?

 

[patprimmer]

Not when you are driving oil field equipment on site with produce from the oil well being used directly from the well.

Regards
Pat
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[dicer]

With EFI and an O2 sensor, the HHO deal won't work too good.
If the fuel charge burns too completely the O2 sensor sees it as lean and wants to add more gas to the mix. Now if you had something like mega squirt that you have alot of control of then maybe.

 

[patprimmer]

Dicer
I am not to sure about the function of an O2 sensor in a diesel.

Regards
Pat
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[SomptingGuy]

I think it's to do with cell phone signal strength.

- Steve