Vehicle speed governor for GM vans 1

[robracing671]

I have a customer requesting a device to restrict vehicle speeds for there fleet of 2011 GM vans. I don't know if they are looking for a adjustable or set speed, i.e 70mph. Does anyone know of a company that sells something that would flash the ECU or possibly a plug in device? Thanks,Rob

 

[Lou Scannon]

There was a device I encountered in the UK many years ago called "Econocruise", I believe. I'm sure thare are many other add on devices these days. However, given today's state of the art, an ECU reflash would certainly be more elegant. Of course you certainly won't get that from GM, but more than likely the ECU in question has been hacked, and if your customer is ok with going into the questionable area of unauthorized reflashing of their fleet, that would be an option. One company to contact in that case would be EFI Live, based in Australia.

I forgot what I was going to say

 

[patprimmer]

more than likely the ECU in question has been hacked, and if your customer is ok with going into the questionable area of unauthorized reflashing of their fleet, that would be an option. One company to contact in that case would be EFI Live, based in Australia.
{/quote]

With examples like Julian Assange, hacking skills must be a component of the convict blood.

Regards
Pat
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[MikeHalloran]

Way back in the days before there was such a thing as an ECU, GM and others offered optional at extra cost governors to their truck fleet customers. ... and there was a small cottage industry of people who could, ahem, adjust, governors for a little extra speed without leaving obvious evidence of having done so.

I can't imagine that GM would not now provide means to keep fleet owners happy, especially since their dealers already have tools capable of reflashing, the incremental cost of doing it amounts to a few minutes of labor, and fleet owners are still willing to pay extra to prevent damage from driver abuse.

Has your customer actually asked a GM dealer about reflashing?



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[Lou Scannon]

It sounds reasonable, yet for an application sold as a complete vehicle such as a light duty van, the OEM has many hoops to go through just to legally release an initial calibration for production. Any future updates that meet all the regulatory criteria will be the result of either warranty or recall.
If there was a pre-existing speed governing option available, I would expect that would be a tick box on the vehicle specification form, and not a secret option requiring a visit back to the dealer for a reflash, but I could be wrong.

I certainly agree with Mike, before fretting or spending any money, at least inquire with the dealer to see if there is a ready made option.

I forgot what I was going to say

 

[patprimmer]

There is quite probably already a speed govenor built in. It probably operates at uch higher speeds than you are anticipating, like 200kph.

It might be a relatively easy task to reset it to your requirements.

Regards
Pat
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[TheBlacksmith]

I was also under the impression that most vehicles these days capable of exceeding the OEM tire speed ratings had governor settings in the ECM set slightly below the tire rating, typically around 108 mph. There are a lot of "tuners" that, among other services, list raising or eliminating that setting, so I suppose it should also be possible to lower it to 70 mph.

 

[LionelHutz]

http://www.hptuners.com

http://www.efilive.com

http://www.tunercat.com

sold as the JET Dynamic Spectrum Tuner

I know the basic HPTuners is about $450 and can be licensed to a model year and then you can do as many vehicles as you want. I can't recall, but the license is maybe 8 or 16 credits at $50 each. It's a pretty easy task to change the speed limiter in the program.

 

[Lou Scannon]

Pretty much what I expected. The dealer won't do it, but it has been hacked, so it can be done, with the requisite tools.
Though the intention may be pure, any non-CARB or EPA approved reflash is, strictly speaking, not legal, for vehicles falling under their jurisdiction. Just FYI (there are of course exceptions for vehicles undergoing bonafide development, on the way to CARB and/or EPA approval - not a trivial process, BTW).
The tools mentioned by LionelHutz will give you a similar warning, when you use them.

I forgot what I was going to say

 

[btrueblood]

"any non-CARB or EPA approved reflash is, strictly speaking, not legal"

Hmm. Unless the legislation has changed, an end user is allowed to modify his vehicle any way he wants, unless he violates emissions levels for NOx/CO etc. or noise, and it would be up to the regulatory body or its agents to prove that the changes made by that user caused the increased emissions. It's not legal for an OEM to sell a chipped vehicle without getting EPA/CARB approval, but I don't believe that even CARB has regulatory control (nor the wherewithal) to investigate individual user's vehicles. Whether or not the standard warranty and/or EPA mandated emission system warranty would still be effective is a separate issue (but I would seriously doubt it). Resale of a chipped vehicle is a third issue, but most of the settings made on today's vehicles can be un-done by the same programming tools.

 

[CRG]

If I had concerns about employees abusing vehicles with speed issues; I would issue a company cell phone that is required to be in the van. There are services that will track and notify you of the vehicle speed and location. As far as I know, someone has blended speed limits with maps such that you will be notified if the vehicle is breaking the posted speed limit. If the driver knows that the vehicle is being tracked, I doubt that speed will become an issue.

 

[IRstuff]

The alternative is to get a GPS/nav system that simply monitors and logs the vehicles' speed. One could then just check to see if the prescribed speed limits had been violated. AAA auto insurance is in the midst of testing such a device for monitoring teen drivers.

In addition to monitoring the vehicle, you can also find the vehicle at any given time and verify that it maintained the route assigned to the driver.

TTFN

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[patprimmer]

IR

I wonder if they will include gambling venues, bars and house of ill repute on the maps so times spent parked close to such venues can be also tracked. ;-)

It might lead to some interesting reviews if a drivers favorite lunch shop is located to close to one of the above.

Regards
Pat
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[berkshire]

CRG,
There are systems out there commercially available that can be installed on the vehicle without the cell phone,
See the link for what they can do.
B.E.

http://www.gpsfleetsolutions.com/GPS_Intro_to_Employees.php

The good engineer does not need to memorize every formula; he just needs to know where he can find them when he needs them. Old professor

 

[FeX32]

How does limiting you speed to just 70mph prevent damage to the vehicle? Is it just the slightly more wear on components?
I would imagine that a 5mph curb hit is much more detrimental among other things that can be done at low speeds.
Sorry for the bit off topic slide.


Fe

 

[IRstuff]

Well, the basic concept is probably that the lower your speed, the less damage incurred in most accidents.

As for the proximity of a lingerie bar and my lunch stop, that's merely a coincidence ;-) On a related note, as a sign of the times changing, the strip club near the corner of Century and Aviation Blvds, that had been a landmark of LAX, appears to have fallen on hard times and no longer exists.

TTFN

FAQ731-376
Chinese prisoner wins Nobel Peace Prize

 

[Lou Scannon]

btrueblood, I freely admit, my perspective is not from an intimate knowledge of the wording of the regulations, but how they affect the legality of offering a reflash to an end user who is a customer.
To me, the case in the OP is a grey area, since it is unclear whether the end user or someone affiliated with the OEM will be doing the reflashing.
I'll back away now and let the experts sort this out. Sorry if I erred too far on the side of caution.

I forgot what I was going to say

 

[LionelHutz]

The tools mentioned by LionelHutz will give you a similar warning, when you use them.

The others may, but HPTuners doesn't warn you.

 

[1gibson]

Nobody is concerned that limiting the vehicle speed may be dangerous in certain highway situations? Maybe that's slightly off topic and "the customer is always right."

But back on topic, I was going to mention that the typical methods for a speed limiter would be reduced ignition timing and fuel cuts, which I doubt would be engine safe for long term operation (drivers pegging the gas and bouncing off the limiter for XX minutes at a time.)

Then I saw it was 2011, and is likely drive-by-wire which would probably be the main mechanism for speed limiter, so that simiplifies things. If a piggy back device doesn't already exist to reduce actual throttle angle based on vehicle speed, it might not be too difficult to develop, and there may be real commercial applications for it's use (delivery drivers, teens, etc.)

Or a reflash as mentioned, provided you confirm the mechanism that limits the speed is commanded vs actual throttle position. If for some reason the main mechanism is still ignition/fuel cuts, I would think pretty hard about just dropping the speed value and flashing a fleet of delivery vans, knowing the drivers will be hitting that limiter often...

It's not unusual to see "aftermarket cruise control" on older big delivery vans. The most popular consists of a stick that is used to wedge the gas pedal to the floor.

 

[btrueblood]

"I wonder if they will include gambling venues, bars and house of ill repute on the maps so times spent parked close to such venues can be also tracked."

Hmm, might be a good way to market the device to some of us...who have trouble finding a good house of ill repute while traveling to/from unfamiliar towns.

Hemi - my take on this is from about 12-15 years ago, when talking to OEMs of heavy trucks and their equipment. The bigger diesels then were not as heavily regulated by EPA as they are now, and at the time the ECM software and programmers were being promoted by such mfg.'s as CAT, along with training for shop personnel on their use.

I know that OEM's of some delivery vehicles and buses are required to include speed limiters in many European jurisdictions. The speed limiters work the same way cruise control does, i.e. by adjusting actual vs. commanded throttle position. Wikipedia has info. on the subject, and links to relevant regulatory sites.