Washer tripping breaker 3

[dozer]

I hope you'll excuse a structural engineer sticking his nose in here and asking a homeowner type question but I can't get a straight answer from the people I bought a washer from. I just had a brand new washer delivered and when they started it, it tripped the breaker. It's a 20 amp GFCI circuit. The genius delivery guy says he's seen it happen before and his recommendation was to replace the 20 amp breaker with a 25 amp breaker. What the . . . ? He said it's a big washer and it pulls more amps. I was in utter disbelief. I finally found the sticker and it said 11 amps. When I challenged him on that he said there is a spike (my word for what he was trying to say) when the motor starts. Ok, this is where my knowledge of electricity gets a little shaky, but I know that is true but I can't believe it's going to be a large enough spike (or long enough?) to trip the breaker.

Anyway, I sent it back suspecting there is something wrong with the washer. Our house is only 5 years old and we've never had problems with this breaker before. My nagging fear is that our breaker magically broke between the time we unplugged the old washer and plugged in the new washer. Or perhaps more likely, my understanding is GFCI is it's pretty touchy (feel free to correct me on this point). Maybe it was just a fluke.

So, I'm curious if folks think when they bring the new washer (same model) if this will just happen again or if everything will be hunky dory. I just mean statistically speaking. I know I haven't given enough info to properly diagnose the problem.

I think I also just wanted to vent. I mean am I crazy or is that nuts to recommend putting in a larger breaker?

 

[zeusfaber]

I don't expect the motor will account for much of the nameplate current - that's mainly destined for the water heater (which is unlikely to draw much by way of extra starting current.

The thing that sets a GFCI apart from a basic breaker is its ability to detect quite small leakages of current to Earth. This is quite an important safety function and any appliance that exercises it needs to be treated with caution.

The "right" thing to do is to find and read the manufacturer's installation instructions to check what circuit capacity they recommend.

I imagine I would eventually get round to doing that - but only after I'd given the washer a good going over with an insulation tester.

A.

 

[IRstuff]

Do you recall whether the tub spun freely? Was it front-loading?

Motor startup spikes are not uncommon, and they can up as much as 10x the normal operating current, since you're trying to move a dead weight.

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[waross]

On the other hand, a lot of newer washers use VFDs and there is little starting surge.
Is this a dish washer or a clothes washer?
But the biggest question:
Does the breaker trip on over current (The handle trips) of Ground Fault (The little button pops out).
If the washer has a 15 amp or 20 Amp plug, it should start on a 20 Amp breaker.
I don't think that you can get a 25 Amp GFCI. The truck driver/delivery man may be making it up as he goes.
The breaker should ride through the starting surge, but:
If you have ground leakage, the washer has a problem.


Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[itsmoked]

Next time please post your DIY question in a better place:
forum1528

Any domestic washer will run on a 15A breaker which is probably why if you select the sterilize cycle it instantly adds an hour to the cycle. (Little power draw to heat the water to 165F.)

You haven't stated if this is a top-loader or front loader. Front-loaders use Variable Frequency Drives (VFD) to run a permanent magnet motor, which is a low leakage type motor. The VFD will have potential for causing electromagnetic interference (EMI). Most of the techniques for reducing this invite some amount of ground leakage.

My first guess would be that you got a front-loader and it has some amount of built-in ground leakage. Because of this that same circuit could have something else that also contributes ground leakage and that added to the new washer's adds up to more than the 5 milliamps allowed by the GFI breaker before tripping.

OR

Your breaker is overly sensitive and is tripping on the new washer while it didn't on the old washer. I've seen this several times.

First thing I do is switch out the existing breaker with a new GFI breaker with the same amp rating.
Alternatively you can plug it into an unrelated unloaded GFI protected outlet to see if it trips that one also.

If you have any electrical bent I can help you walk thru some more specific troubleshooting, if, having some ability includes having a modern Digital Multimeter and some basic electrical junk type stuff.




Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[dozer]

It’s a front loading washing machine. Thanks for the info. They are bringing another washer tomorrow so we’ll see if that trips. If it does it sounds like I need to change the breaker.

 

[waross]

Does the breaker trip on over current (The handle trips) or Ground Fault (The little button pops out).

The first step in trouble shooting is identifying the d--- problem.

Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[dozer]

They brought a new washer and it tripped it too. I reset it and it worked for several loads then tripped again. As far as over current or ground fault, the switch was always centered when it tripped like a normal breaker. One time the red light was flashing which I assume means it was because it was ground fault. (It's tripped a few times). It's an Eaton AFCI/GFCI. When I hit the test button it flips the breaker. There is no button that pops out, just a red light. I bought a new breaker and will put it in tonight.

 

[itsmoked]

Very interesting..

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[electricpete]

> I bought a new breaker and will put it in tonight.

20A or 25A? If 25A then from a code compliance standpoint I think you'd want to make sure the breaker would trip early enough to protect your wiring. At least that's the way I remember it, one of the jobs of the breaker is to protect the wiring.

=====================================
(2B)+(2B)' ?

 

[dozer]

Electricpete, 20 amp. As waross said, I don't think you can get one in 25 amp. I wouldn't just a throw a larger breaker in anyway.

 

[edison123]

Normally, there is a transport lock that prevent the drum transport damage. Did you remove it? I learnt it the hard way.

Muthu

http://www.edison.co.in

 

[dozer]

Mystery solved! It was the breaker. Thanks everyone. My neighbor is an electrical engineer and has a house built by the same builder as mine. He had the same brand and type of breaker also having spurious trips. I replaced it with the same brand (Eaton) but, according to him, an improved version. Evidently, the AFCI feature can misread the certain wave forms as an arc flash and trip. This later model will hopefully do a better job.

 

[waross]

Thank you for providing us with feedback.

Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!