Water Issues 4

[Lion06]

Hi guys-
I hope this doesn't get red-flagged.
I am looking for some help with a water issue at home. We have well-water and it is VERY hard. It has a decent amount of manganese and leaves stains (that can be difficult to clean) on a lot of surfaces.
There is a water softener that was in place when we bought the house (2 years ago), but I don't think it works well and is pretty old. We would like to upgrade, but I wanted to get some opinions on water softeners before I invest a decent amount of money in one.

Can I get some educated opinions?

 

[bimr]

If you are asking whether a water softener is the most current and suitable technology for your residential application, the answer is an unqualified yes.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of shady characters selling consumer products such as windows, siding, water softeners, etc. As an example, the outfit that provides the free water analysis at home depot desires to sell you a $500 water softener for $6,000 (including 6 years of free soap).

You will need to locate a reliable seller who sells at a reasonable price. Sears was the leading seller of water softeners for years. Most of the water softeners are using the same technology, so don’t be misled by bogus misrepresentations and overpay.

 

[Lion06]

That was my biggest question, the different technologies. It is good to know that they are similar. For some reason I thought there would be a number of different types available.
Do you have any recommendations for a good brand?

 

[bimr]

There really is not that much difference between the brands. I would check sears first, then move on to the next brand if you are not happy. Just don't buy any perceived benefits for high dollars.

 

[Lion06]

I just did a quick search and found 3 or 4 different types.
salt
salt-free
reverse osmosis
magnetics

It seems like the salt-free is the way to go. Is this the technology that is most common?

 

[cvg]

magnetics seems to be mostly hocus pocus, RO "filters" water but it sounds like you need to remove minerals, however you may want filtration as well as softening. I believe the most common softener uses salt to regenerate the resin.

 

[bimr]

"I just did a quick search and found 3 or 4 different types.
salt
salt-free
reverse osmosis
magnetics"

The "salt" type is a conventional water softener.

The "salt-free" type is a quack device and does not work. Total waste of money.

The "reverse osmosis" type is a convential RO unit, and works great, however, it is much more expensive and has a lower capacity. It is more commonly used for residential drinking water only.

The "magnetics" type is a quack device and does not work. Total waste of money. Probably the same device as the salt-free.

Don't waste your time with the quack devices.

 

[Lion06]

Interesting..........
The couple websites I found said that the salt ones are outdated and cause deposits of another mineral in pipes. Maybe I just happened to find the ones that are biased.

 

[bimr]

Bias is not a good word to describe the sellers of the quack devices. Huckster is a more appropriate term.

Here is a primer on residential water treatment:

http://www.bobvila.com/ArticleLibrary/Task/Building/DrinkingWater.html

Sears is a major seller of water softeners.

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/search_10153_12605?vName=Appliances&keyword=water+softeners&sLevel=0

 

[Lion06]

I just found out that my township does not allow salt-based water softeners. What to do now?

 

[LCruiser]

Ask the city public works department - see what they recommend.

 

[francesca]

My father-in-law has a salt/chlorine water softener/treatment gizmo that the VA made him put in when he remortgaged his house. The water pretty much goes through a filter, gets a boat load of salt added to it and then a sea of chlorine. He pretty much traded a sulphur smell for a chlorine smell and he has to use bottled water in his coffee pot because there's still so much stuff leaving residue that it ruined a coffee pot in 2 years.

If you're not on city water, are you on city sewer? If not, does your township have any say? If you're on a septic tank you may just have the state to please after convincing local building & codes that you have the right size tank and leach field.

 

[Lion06]

We have well water and while we are currently on city septic, we do still have a septic system. There are several benefits to the township sewer system including being able to use the garbage disposal, not having to space out loads of laundry, etc. which would make the move back to our septic system tough.

 

[bimr]

If a water softener is banned, another alternative will be RO.

The first thing that you need to do is get a complete water analysis. Do you have this?

Also, have you discussed this water quality problem with the water well supplier? The water well supplier is a great source for information.

By the way, what type of well do you have?

 

[Lion06]

We got a water analysis when we bought the house 2.5 years ago and it was hard. I don't remember exactly what the minerals were (except manganese, I remember that one). RO is definitely out, they seem VERY expensive.

What type of well do I have? I have no idea, I didn't even know there were different types.

 

[bimr]

Water wells are not generic. The depth and diameter of a well varies with application.

You may be able to have the well water quality improved if you go drill deeper, screen a different aquifer, etc. You need to talk to a local well driller for options.

If you post the water analysis, one would be able to propose treatment options.

What are you using this water for? RO is usually used for drinking water only, but if the water is so bad, RO can be used for whole house.

I would also add that some appliances (high end) actually include the water softener in the appliance. Some dishwashers for example. So if you were interested in just washing dishes, you could go with a different brand of dishwasher.

 

[rday]

StructuralEIT,

I have a resin ion exchange column that uses salt to wash the resin beads. I am quite happy with it.

Some of your posts raise other issues. First, I am assuming you mean municipal sanitary sewer not septic system. Maybe I'm wrong.

I am speaking from Colorado having experience as a county engineer. I don't know you location but, being on a well often reqiures permiting (always in CO). This permit outlines allowable uses and may require recharging of ground water not discharge to municipal sanitary sewer.

Additionally, if you have proximity to municiapl sanitary sewer, municipalities often will not allow you to maintain individual septic systems.

I would call the township's engineer to discuss your issues. Your money may be best spent hooking to municipal water if it is available.

 

[Lion06]

I would jump on municipal water if it were available. Unfortunately, the only availability is municipal sewer.
My understanding is that I could hook back up to my septic, if desired, as not everyone in my development is hooked up to the municipal sewer.
Here's part of the dilemna (please correct me if I'm wrong):
to be hooked up to municipal sewer means no salt softener, but if I hook back up to my septic then the backwashing of the softener could cause problems for my septic. Is that correct? That's what I've ben told by septic guys (of course they're just the guys cleaning it out).

 

[cvg]

you could drain the salt brine backwash to an evaporation pond and just clean out the salt and dispose in the trash.

 

[bimr]

The water quality improvement industry has information on the effect of the salt in softener effluent and state that the salt does not harm septic tanks:

http://www.wqa.org/sitelogic.cfm?ID=363

This conclusion is supported by the Ten States’ "Recommended Standards for Individual Sewage Systems" The states have concluded that even in Montmorillinite clay soils, "the disposal of brine wastes from water softening equipment does not have a significant effect upon the permeability of soils suitable for soil absorption systems."