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We have a part cast from NiHard 1.

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Tmoose

Mechanical
Apr 12, 2003
5,626
We have a part cast from NiHard 1. The part is a trapezoid (actually more like a pizza slice with the tip chewed off) . It is 5/8" to 1" thick with 3 sides ~ 24 inch long and the nibbled side ~15" long.
Our standard note for this material calls for "Anneal:Stress relieve castings, heat slowly to 425°F ±25°F, (Do not exceed 450° F.), hold at this temperature for 1 hour for each inch of thickness plus an additional 3 hours, or 4 hours minimum. Leave castings in mold until casting temperature reaches 200° or less."

The dimensions of the decades old pattern suggest the old pattern makers were expecting shrinkage of 1 - 1.5%.
Presumably also the very same pattern produced acceptable parts back then, although by a different foundry.

Parts being delivered in recent times are undersized.
It appears the shrinkage “across” the part (pizza cut edge to PC edge) is on the order of 2.5 - 2.8%. I do not have measurements in the radial (pizza) dimension.

The Nickle Institute's handbook suggests shrinkage between 1.25 and 1.95 for NiHard 1, and 1.8 and 2.8% for NiHard 4.
The foundry just provided chemistry from a 3rd party confirming the material is NiHard 1. (Another wonderful theory goes down in flames)

I am about to look into the radial shrinkage, to see if the part is full sized in that direction, and possibly “restrained” thereby causing mega-shrinkage across the part.

The specified Stress Relief looks to be pretty standard for Abrasion Resistant Iron casting according to the Nickel Institute.
What I could not find in the Nickel Institute literature is the net shrinkage ( un-shrinkage) to be expected from the Stress Relief. Thus I am wondering IF the stress relief was skipped or done incorrectly, could the part end up 1% too small ?

Any comments or suggestions are appreciated.

We are not really considering modifying the pattern due to the small sales volume of this part in modern coal hating times,
But there are other similar parts that may suffer if the root cause of the excessive shrinkage is process related.

Thanks,

Dan T
 
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Tmoose said:
modern coal hating times
You say it like it's a bad thing.


"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."
 
There are uses for coal, but that aside.
My thought is that they either are using different mold material or pouring temp, or both.

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P.E. Metallurgy
 
TMOOSE
Kindly go back and dig into the old process plans and chemistry info if available.
and then obtain current chemistry and process plan,
look for what changed?
 
are you sure they are using the same mold?
Kindly please also if possible do a spectral analysis of and old parts & new parts and compare.
go to the foundry and start digging.

edit: I looked at change per inch roughly .009-.010 per inch seems like a lot.
problem with castings it can be a night mare if the process isn't controlled properly.
which mold process are they using , lost wax?
I notice years ago I had issues with castings not repeating,
they would use a master mold to make the wax cores, then create the san molds.
they would ship all the good stuff first (dimensionally correct, then ship the
out tolerance last.
taking a guess here with out proper root cause, look closely at molding process.
and the technique they are using..
 
It appears to be a wall liner plate casting. There can be only 2 reasons for the dimensions to move

a) Wrong chemistry of the alloy poured

b) A damaged pattern poorly maintained ,leading to mould damages, while extracting the pattern from the mould . (Excessive rapping of the pattern).

Are the holes matching for mounting the plates?

 
Chinese foundry? Have you had chemistry checked by a reputable stateside lab?
 
My money is still with the change in sand, binder, and pouring temp.
We made molds two different ways and we could not use the same pattern dimensions for both when we poured Ni-Resist.

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P.E. Metallurgy
 
Tmoose,
I'm hoping you posted that link ironically.


"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."
 
Hi IM,

"I'm hoping you posted that link IRONically."

Well, my OP was about an Abrasion Resistant Iron.
 
Just remember, you can't make steel without coke, and you can't make coke without coal.

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P.E. Metallurgy
 
EdStainless said:
Just remember, you can't make steel without coke, and you can't make coke without coal.

Ed, you need to keep up with the latest developments



"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."
 
Yes eventually. But of course their trial was done with Hydrogen from coal or NatGas.
And of course there isn't enough renewable energy in the world today to support steel making.
And it means moving to process that is much less energy efficient.
We will get there, but for a long time to come there are much better ways to use the renewable energy.
The big one to crack is cement.
Sorry Dan, a bit of a side track. Ed

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P.E. Metallurgy
 
Yesterday the modern foundry said this -
".... a shrink rate of 5/16” foot, which is the norm for us in this foundry with this material. "

That translates to about 2.6%, pretty much what we got.

===========

Just now the modern foundry said this -

"AS A TEST ONLY. We are running a heat of this material and we are going to lower our tap temperature by 100° to see how much if any difference we see in the overall shrinkage. "

All the old parts have been worn out helping keep the lights on.
The previous foundry has shut down.
So the info I have is all I'm going to get.

Thanks to all who responded.

Dan T
 
Yesterday the modern foundry said this -
".... a shrink rate of 5/16” foot, which is the norm for us in this foundry with this material. "
sure they are covering their butts
 
Hi mfgenggear,

Yeah, any time that kind of info appears after the fact it never looks, sounds, or smells any damn good.

Now part of the discussion is they will do a quick measure of some overall dimensions of any of our legacy patterns to estimate how the parts will come out BEFORE pouring.

If only they had done this, or we had asked them to 2-3 years ago.


thanks all,

Dan T
 
Dan
How difficult is it to make new pattern?
Or is possible to rework.?
Would it be possible to rework existing by parts by welding?

Would it possible to have the pattern inspected?
 
Making a new pattern is not difficult. It could be 3D printed if required in PLA or ABS.

I have used for NiHard shrink rule of 2.5%.

The alloy is not weldable. It will crack.

 
Once we changed sand binder systems and found that we were getting small parts.
Some of our simple patterns we coated with a high build epoxy paint and made them just a bit larger, it was enough.
Ones with internal details had to be re-made.

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P.E. Metallurgy
 
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