Weld Symbol Clarification 1

[dbarnard]

I am in need of a little clarification on a pretty basic weld symbol.

Does the weld symbol shown in the attached document require the welder to use filler material in the fillet weld?

Thanks in advance!

 

[REGRUMBLE]

The weld symbol is a basic fillet weld so does not specify a filler metal but how else will you achieve the fillet size required. You cannot just melt the parent metal so you must add something.

 

[vanci]

The answer to whether or not to use filler will be dictated by the Welding Procedure Specification (WPS)that will be used on that joint. The WPS should be selected based on customer requirements and any national standards (ASME, API, AMS, AWS, MIL, etc...) you will be welding to and/or any NDE associated with the weld. Also, since no leg length is called out, a very small fillet with concave face would be possible with out the addition of filler metal. Lastly, if the welding process to be used is SMAW (stick) or GMAW (MIG) you must add filler by nature of the process.

 

[dbarnard]

REGRUMBLE this was also my interpretation of the weld symbol, however, there is no fillet size called out. This is where the ambiguity comes from. I can see where an operator may interpret this as no filler required. This will be a GTAW (TIG), so a weld is possible without additional filler metal. Is this type of weld be considered a true fillet weld? For a proper fillet weld callout is a leg length required?

I guess when it can be interpreted in more than one way it must be clearly defined on the drawing. In this case, if a leg length had been stated there would be no question.

Thanks again.

 

[MintJulep]

Well, a fillet with zero length legs isn't really a fillet is is?

Your symbol is incomplete, and therefore ambiguous.

 

[rmw]

Without a note stating that fillet welds will be... for example half the thickness of the thickest member joined, twice the thickness of the thinnest, etc (using a couple of ridiculous examples, of courses) as Mint has noted, the symbol is incomplete.

rmw

 

[gtaw]

The fabrication standard may provide some insight as to the minimum weld size when no size is specified. For example, AWS D1.1 states that when the Engineer does not specified the weld size, the weld must develop the strength of the adjoining members in both shear and tension.

Best regards - Al

 

[rookieweld]

"The fabrication standard may provide some insight as to the minimum weld size when no size is specified. For example, AWS D1.1 states that when the Engineer does not specified the weld size, the weld must develop the strength of the adjoining members in both shear and tension."


How does one gaurantee that?
thanks

 

[MollyK]

Depending on how the ajoining members are coming together. In this case, having to do a weld all around, the maximum fillet weld size would be equal to the thickness of the adjoining member-1/16" per AISC a-36 (13th edition), with 1/4" minimum weld. If you are just developing the weld for a shear tab with a thickness = tp, an easy rule of thumb is 5/8*tp. If you reference 9-5 in the AISC manual it explains the connection element rupture strengths at welds. If you use those same eqns and solve for D, you have developed the welds.

 

[racookpe1978]

OK. Do he has calculated the fillet legs using a pair of references and common practice - to welding engineers at least. Now, why isn't that info on the dwg?

Do you expect the welder to do the same every time? Bad design, bad detailing, bad drawing = failure (sooner or later)

 

[gtaw]

It is not the welder's responsibility to design welds or to determine the proper weld size. That is the responsibility of the fabricator's detailer. The detailer should be capable of sizing the weld based on the information provided by the structural drawings. If there is any question regarding the requirements, it is incumbent upon the detailer to direct an inquiry to the design engineer, i.e., the Engineer when the applicable code is AWS D1.1.

Keep in mind that the fabricator is required to submit the detail shop drawings to the Engineer for final review and approval if AWS D1.1 is the welding coded cited by the project specifications. The Engineer must review the welded connections to verify they are sized properly.


Best regards - Al

 

[GT10]

Sometimes in sets of drawings the size of the fillet is not indicated in the weld symbol. A general note is included which goes like: 6mm CFW UNO (6mm continuous fillet weld unless noted otherwise).

 

[holdpt]

If you would indulge me in asking a similar question, I would like to know what a vee or bevel-groove welding symbol with no size, no tail info, and no gouge indicates? I had argued that it means depth of preparation is the full thickness only while the others argued that it meant a full-pen weld also. I have always insisted that the customer provide more information in this instance.

Thanks.

 

[Kiwi2671]

holdpt,
AWS D1.1 2010
"The welding symbol without dimension and without CJP
in the tail designates a weld that will develop the adjacent
base metal strength in tension and shear."
Hope that helps,
Regards,
Kiwi