Welder Qualification 1

[timmckee]

If a welder is qualified to:

Procedure 1
SMAW
P1 to P1
E6010 root, E7018 fill and cap

Procedure 2
GTAW
P8 to P8
ER316L filler

Would that automatically qualify him for

Procedure 3
GTAW/SMAW
P1 to P1
ER70S root, E7018 fill and cap

 

[metengr]

No, not for GTAW, per ASME B&PV Code, Section IX.

 

[timmckee]

Why not? (Assuming Procedure 3 has a valid PQR)

Procedure 2 qualifies him to weld any P1 thru P11 material using F6 filler with GTAW

Procedure 1 qualifies him to weld any P1 thru P11 material using F4 filler with SMAW

 

[metengr]

timmckee;
Your question was about welder performance qualification, not WPS qualification. In reviewing the above information, was the welder qualified to deposit carbon steel filler metal using the GTAW process? The welder is qualified using GTAW for F-No 6 filler metal only.

 

[timmckee]

But ER70S is a F6 material.

 

[metengr]

I recognize this. However, depositing F6 using the GTAW process does not qualify a welder for F1-F5. In order for the welder to use Procedure 3 in a production joint, they would have to deposit F1 filler metal using the GTAW process.

 

[gtaw]

I disagree.

SMAW: welder is qualified for F1, F2, F3, and F4 filler metals and P1 through P15F, and P34 and P41 through P49 base metals.

GTAW: welder is qualified for same P numbers and all F6 filler metals.

The question is can the welder weld P1 to P1 with F6 and F4 filler metal when combining the two welding processes.

Root welded with GTAW using F6 - yes welder is qualified
Intermediate layers and cover with SMAW using F4 - yes welder is qualified for F4 with backing.

What we do not know is whether the GTAW was welded with or without backing. If the initial qualifiaction was without backing, the welder can weld both with or without backing in production. If backing was used in the initial GTAW qualification, backing or back gouging is required when CJP groove welds are required.

Best regards - Al

 

[gtaw]

Sorry, I should have referenced paragraphs QW-423 and QW-433 in my response.

Best regards - Al

 

[timmckee]

Thanks for your responses, much appreciated.

 

[metengr]

I agree with gtaw. Must have been a senior moment on my part overlooking the all F6 classification.

 

[gtaw]

Having responding as I did, I will go one step further and say that I always recommend the welders be required to qualify on carbon steels, nickel alloys, and (austenitic) stainless steels separately.

The code sets the minimum requirements, but most welders will admit there are differences in the way the metal flows when comparing carbon steels, stainless steels, and nickel alloys. The cost of qualifying the welder on each base metal family is inexpensive compared to repairing unacceptable welds.

The welder qualification test is the easiest way to ensure the welder can handle the different base metals and follow the WPS.

There is a saying about welders; "You can always tell a welder, but you can't tell him much!"

An engineer said that to me many years ago while I still under the welding helmet earned my living burning rod. I now understand what he meant.

There is no better time to teach a welder something new or tweak his welding skills than right after he fails a qualification test. Other than that brief moment, all hopes of teaching the old dog a new trick or two is lost.

Best regards - Al

 

[metengr]

gtaw;
I agree. I administer the welding program in my company and I require separate performance qualification for GTAW on carbon and stainless coupons.

 

[Guest102023]

hahaha gtaw, that's what I learned in my time as a welding engineer - too many old dogs and not enough new tricks

 

[Mr168]

In reference to gtaw's post, may as well throw QW-408.8 in there as well, as that's usually the deciding factor if qualifying with stainless filler and an open root.