We've had murder cars, now we've got murder-trains in Florida of course 13

[GregLocock]

Florida's new high speed rail line kills 1 person for every 32000 miles travelled.

https://www.wesh.com/article/deadly-brightline-crash-miami-orlando/45261043

It's a great headline number, but of course it is referring to vehicle miles, not pax miles. Number still seems rather high.




Cheers

Greg Locock


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[3DDave]

Apparently a suicide target and impatient drivers are the leading causes. They are trying crossing arms that completely block all lanes in both directions, more fences to stop pedestrians crossing, but stopping suicidal individuals is not easy.

 

[MintJulep]

There is the question of safety for residents near the tracks.

I wonder what the question is.

I guess the train has hit zero houses, zero apartments. So living near a train, even a murder train, seems pretty safe.

 

[MortenA]

Did a quick search and the numbers are a little old, but i 1995 EU had an average 3.2 fatalities/billion passenger-km/year (worst Greece: 21, best Spain: 1.4). This includes both passenger and non passenger. The latter being the majority (2.8 of 3.2). Car traffic were better than i expected at 11.4 fatalities/1 billion passenger-KM. I think this number has come down a lot since then.

--- Best regards, Morten Andersen

 

[phamENG]

Took a train from Tampa heading north to DC when I was 5. 30 minutes out of Tampa, we struck and killed a pedestrian.

Florida is not accustomed to train traffic in cities any more, and has probably never been accustomed to them in suburbs. We still had freight trains in town in St. Petersburg when I was a kid, and I'm pretty sure the last circus train came right into downtown while I was in high school...maybe they kept running after I left? But they've always been slow and infrequent. So the introduction of frequent, high speed rail...especially in southeast Florida...is sure to confuse and kill a lot of Floridians.

 

[thebard3]

A freight train, deadly too, I guess.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/5-dead-2-injured-train-strikes-suv-carrying/story?id=103442776

Brad Waybright

The more you know, the more you know you don't know.

 

[drawoh]

Did a quick search and the numbers are a little old, but i 1995 EU had an average 3.2 fatalities/billion passenger-km/year...

Do European high speed trains intersect roads, or do they have their own right of way?

--
JHG

 

[EdStainless]

The BrightLine is a dream to ride.
My daughter commutes from Coral Gables (S. Miami) to Palm Beach Gardens a day or two a week.
My gut feel for this is that FL auto fatality rates are high. Most states that are higher are much lower population so per capita is misleading.
The US average is 1.5/100,000,000 miles (not pax miles).

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed

 

[btrueblood]

Quote (WESH.com)
There is the question of safety for residents near the tracks.
endquote

I wonder what the question is.

Maybe people/houses/apartments being hit by rebounding suicide victims?

 

[Brian Malone]

The real failure is the sensibility of some people who walk on or attempt to cross train tracks with a train approaching or try cross tracks in a car with a train approaching. Certainly the Brightline is a "higher speed" train but it is not supersonic. It can be heard and seen well before it is close enough to be a hazard. I don't have enough details on all the instances of fatal interactions on the Brightline system, but my gut feel is a segment of our society needs to stop trying to blame the infrastructure for the failing of the victim.

 

[MortenA]

@drawoh,

High speed trains doesn't have road crossing. Only viaducts. Totally separated from road traffic, pedestrians etc. Actually this is true for most RR traffic except for the remote countryside with old lines and little train traffic.

--- Best regards, Morten Andersen

 

[spsalso]

Reading the linked article, it DOES appear that the pedestrian was, uh, pedesting along, having a pleasant day and harming no one, when the train just HIT him/her. For absolutely no reason at all.

I do recall that when trains were first introduced, some places required a guy on a horse to ride in advance to warn people. Maybe this should be reinstated. Maybe not with a horse, though. Perhaps an AI-equipped drone.


Just a thought.



spsalso

 

[JohnRBaker]

I do recall that when trains were first introduced, some places required a guy on a horse to ride in advance to warn people.

I understand that they did that in some places during the early days of automobiles as well.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[SnTMan]

I recalled reading about the Brightline train some time back on the Antiplanner blog.

A current post about same states in part "Brightline took a Miami-West Palm Beach rail line that had a few slow freight trains each day (and probably mostly at night) and added numerous fast passenger trains without adding any new safety precautions. The line between Miami and West Palm Beach is unfenced and crossing gates at grade crossings do not completely block the crossings (as they are required to do for faster trains)."

There are a number of additional posts on the subject. It sounds "problematic"

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

 

[spsalso]

Yeah, problematic.

Perhaps there should be signs posted at 25' intervals informing pedestrians that the trains might hit them if they place themselves in front of them.

I'm just guessing at the 25' distance--wouldn't want someone to accidentally miss this life-saving guidance.


spsalso

 

[Red Corona]

Do European high speed trains intersect roads, or do they have their own right of way?

Genuine "high speed trains" (TGV/ICE/etc) running at full speed don't.

But Brightline isn't that. Mainline trains running at 100mph or more can have level crossings, at least here in the UK. They are all fenced though, at least in built up areas, you can't just wander onto the tracks without noticing. You can wander onto them at crossings though.

 

[EdStainless]

Morten, where do you live?
Every place in the world that I have ridden high speed trains there have been plenty of grade crossings.
Ever heard of Japan?
Of course the fastest trains in the US are medium speed at best.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed

 

[spsalso]

It's my impression that railroads in England must fence their right of way.

Here in the US, it's turned about: the adjacent landowners have the option of fencing or not.

I am guessing the latter method was chosen because of the much longer distances and much emptier landscape. And the desire to rapidly build a rail system to develop said landscape.

Imagine fencing the right-of-way of the first transcontinental railroad. They barely pulled it off as is.

Australia being quite similar to the US, I wonder what THEIR approach to fencing is.



spsalso

 

[MintJulep]

It can be heard and seen well before it is close enough to be a hazard.

Not true.

A modern electric train, with wheels in good condition and running on track in good condition is remarkably quiet.

Easily not heard over ambient noise in an urban or sub-urban environment.

Horns, whistles and bells are used when approaching a road crossing, and sometime in limited-sight (for the train operator) areas. Unless the neighboring home owners have complained sufficiently to get a "no horn" zone.

 

[Brian Malone]

MintJulep I speak from experience - my house is 50 yards from a major rail line and grade crossing (no horn zone) and yes the trains are quiet but anyone with some awareness will hear the train. And there is virtually no reason to be walking on the tracks or within the width of train cars unless you are doing train track work. Most track right-of-way is a no trespassing zone. Pedestrians are not supposed to be there.