What do I do 8

[EQguys]

I am not sure where to post this but this forum felt the most appropriate. I am currently facing a dilemma at work which has me confused on what to do and how to navigate through it. Hence I am asking for help and feedback from the members.

The firm I work for is collaborating with one other bridge design firm on a particular bridge project. I am one of the two engineers working on the slab spans and Type III girder spans of the project. Our firm has a project manager (lets call him X) who is overlooking us two engineers and delegating the responsibilities. The other firm has the Principal Project Manager (lets call him Y) who is coordinating roadway engineers, structural engineers, drainage engineers etc. Right now we are at a 60% design submittal phase and the dilemma started about a week back. When I was about to send the drawings to Y for their review, Y said that he does not need the slab spans portion of the project since they are taking care of it. As far as I know slab spans were our firms responsibility and I was never told that it is not anymore. So I ask Y what exactly does he mean when he said they are taking care of it. So Y said that he had a talk with X couple of days before and negotiated that slab spans will be their responsibility. I told Y that I need to talk to X before I do anything and I will call him back.

So I go to X and tell him that this was my conversation with Y. Is it true and please confirm it. So now X goes on a rant saying he did not know what he was agreeing to and did not think Y and his firm is taking over the entire slab spans portion of the project. I tell X that atleast he should have asked Y for some time to talk it over with us or the upper management before taking such a critical decision since this is severely going to affect the incoming money. So X confesses that he messed up and tells me not to let the vice president of our firm know about these changes.

Today the vice president makes his routine stop at my office and asks me how is the project going and how we need to put in more effort to give a good impression to the DOTD about this project etc. Do I let the vice president know about the deal that X and Y made. Or do I let the vice president know that he needs to talk to X or Y. Or do I talk to X about coming clean to the vice president. Or do I pretend like everything is ok and get on with it. Please provide your inputs.

 

[drawoh]

EQguys,

Is there any chance your VP will not find out that Y is doing the slab spans?

How does X think he is going to conceal this from your VP, without dragging you down with him?

--
JHG

 

[TenPenny]

You need to tell your VP that there seems to be some confusion about who is doing the slab spans, but that your work is going well.

 

[GHartmann]

My first step would be to go to X and tell him "we need to do the right thing". You should explain that the VP has come in to your office and asked specifically about the project and you put him off, but you can no longer lie.

But be careful, you are definitely in a trap.

 

[MintJulep]

You work with idiots and should call Y and ask if he is hiring.

 

[JAE]

TenPenny's answer is the one I would give.

Since it's Friday and I've enjoyed a beverage, MintJulep's answer is the one I like best.

 

[kylesito]

Hate to sound negative but it seems like a non-issue to me. X's responsibility is to coordinate the work. You brought this to his attention...it's not your job to go to your VP and give him the run down of all this. Let X take care of it.

In my mind, if you go running your mouth off to him about the portion being uncoordinated you are risking looking like an idiot in front of a VP. Check with X this week and see what the resolution is and be ready to do what you have to do to get the project done.

If anything, go with TenPenny.



PE, SE
Eastern United States

"If a builder builds a house for someone, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built falls in and kills its owner, then that builder shall be put to death!"
~Code of Hammurabi

 

[TenPenny]

kylesito, while I agree that you shouldn't "go running to the VP", it's a whole different kettle of fish when the VP comes into your office and asks how it's going. What do you answer? I suggest that lying to him is not a good move.

 

[MintJulep]

I suppose that you could tell the VP that it looks like you'll be done early since you no longer need to do the slab spans.

 

[kylesito]

Haha...and I would have to agree...lying to the VP isn't a good idea!

I don't know, I had in my mind that the VP was probably checking in with this employee out of courtesy and would want to hear more about any real project managment issues directly from Mr. X (the PM) and not necessarily from this employee. I would think that any conversation this employee got into with the VP about this topic would come off more as spilling dirt on Mr. X rather than showing genuine concern over the project. I suppose the situation would be different if the VP came in, closed the door, and directly addressed this employee along the lines of "OK, how do you really feel this project is going". But it's hard to tell how it was asked by the original post.

I certainly hope Mr. X, since it was his conversation and his responsibility, would discuss something this directly with the VP on his own. If I was Mr. X...I would want the chance to settle things with Mr Y on my own and would be pretty p*ssed if one of my employees went spouting something to the VP that I was in the process of working to correct. It's always better to go to the superior with "we had this problem and here is how I corrected it" versus "we have a problem".

But the general concept of slipping it in to a conversation somehow wouldn't be the worst idea. I just think it's more of Mr. X's job.



PE, SE
Eastern United States

"If a builder builds a house for someone, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built falls in and kills its owner, then that builder shall be put to death!"
~Code of Hammurabi

 

[MikeHalloran]

When a VP asks how the project is going, the wise answer includes only what you know to be true within the scope of what you personally have been assigned to do.

When he asks what you have heard, ... well, honestly I don't know the right answer to that. If you stick to the facts, then you'll be screwed when the VP finds out the truth, because you have misled him by omission. If you do 'fess up, you will be screwed my middle management for being disloyal and not respecting the chain of command.

Talking to Top Management is always a career decision.

Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[debodine]

MikeHalloran said, "Talking to Top Management is always a career decision."

That is certainly the truth. I remember the military version VERY well that was drummed into my head by my senior NCO's (before I became one) that, "Talking to the commander is ALWAYS like standing in the middle of a mine field. The best you can hope for is to pass through unscathed, but more often than not no matter what direction you choose, you will set one off." LOL

 

[MrHershey]

LOL at MintJulep. Wish I could give more than one star.

In all seriousness, follow up with X to see if it has been resolved and see what he says. Let him know that the VP has been asking specifically about this project and ask what he suggests you say regarding the slabs. If he tells you to lie, then you have your answer. Ultimately your allegiance isn't to X, and he sure as hell won't be able to help you if anything goes down and he goes down with it.

Wouldn't go tattling to the VP, but you can't dodge the issue and lie to the VP because your immediate superior made a bad move either.

 

[EQguys]

Thanks everybody. We are in the middle of 60% submittal and tomorrow is the deadline. Ofcourse as some of you mentioned, because we are not doing the slab spans anymore our end of the work has reduced considerably. I will be having a talk with Mr.X tomorrow after the submittal is done and ask him if he had a talk with the VP. I also plan to tell Mr.X that if the VP asks me again about how the project is going and asks for specifics, I am not going to holdback on the details. That way I have given Mr.X a chance to explain himself to the VP, while making sure that he knows that I am not going running to the VP.

 

[drawoh]

EQguys,

If the VP approaches you again, perhaps the best thing to do is advise him to talk to X. Advise X that you are going to do this. This sounds fair to me, and it is probably the approach least likely to end in disaster for you.

--
JHG

 

[patprimmer]

If someone asks me to comment on an area that my boss is responsible for, apart from courtesy and generalities, I typically refer them back to the boss.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm

for site rules

 

[lacajun]

Long before I got the engineering degree, I worked at a job and was considered for a promotion. The area manager had me travel to corporate offices for a discussion with his manager. It was all very exciting and they were nice people. I was very young and they were middle aged. They interviewed me together but they were so nice I never felt outnumbered.

The discussions went well until they began asking very sticky questions about the store manager. I considered my options and decided the truth is always the way to go. I also thought they knew the answers; otherwise, they wouldn't be asking because they wouldn't know to ask. I told the truth and didn't elaborate. I was not promoted.

About 25 years later, I ran into the area manager, who was selling cars at that time. I asked him about that interview and why I was not promoted. They, indeed, knew the answers to their questions. They had hard facts on the subjects in question. They feared my honesty. If I would be honest about my manager, I would be honest about them, if ever asked by their superiors in such an interview, and that scared the crap out of them. They were not going to run the risk of promoting me. He noted their protective scheme had no lasting impact as they both lost their jobs within 5-10 years, if memory serves. He ended that part of the conversation with "no one will be promoted that is too honest." It seems he failed to understand "no one will be kept that is too dishonest."

I did the right thing and paid a price for it. I would do the same thing again. Such things you cannot completely protect yourself from or against. You have to do the right thing and let the dust settle.

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC

 

[EQguys]

Update: I followed up with X and talked to him about coming clean with the VP as soon as possible. I told him that I could talk to VP about it myself, but I want to give X a chance to explain the situation himself. Further, I also told X that if the VP approaches me again and asks me specific details, I am going to tell the VP to talk to X about it. I also told X that he is putting me in a tough spot and forcing me to be quite. If down the road, the VP finds out and shit hits the roof, then I am going to be blamed. X agreed and apologized for putting me in a tough spot and assured me that he is going to talk to X. This was couple of days back and I still haven't heard back from X or VP. I have been putting up with lots of mismanagement and poor decisions in this firm and now it looks like its time to polish the resume.

 

[Maui]

Keep in mind that when X speaks with the VP there is the potential for him to throw you under the bus and blame you for his own screw up. Since I have no idea what he is like in this respect, I don't know how likely (or unlikely) this is. If it does happen, you will probably know about it in short order. If it doesn't, then there should be no problem for you.

If you don't hear anything by the end of this week, I would recommend touching base with your boss at some point early next week to casually ask him how the conversation with the VP went.

Maui

http://www.EngineeringMetallurgy.com

 

[EQguys]

Update: Mr.X spoke to the VP and explained to him why he did what he did. Apparently VP was fine with the decision made by X which is bizarre to me. Anyway, thanks to all for the positive feedback on this topic. I have decided to start polishing my resume and move on for better reasons. Hopefully I have exceeded my expectations in this firm and learned enough to make an impression on my next employer.