what is the difference between a designer and an engineer 11

[toro45]

hello;

i have worked for MEP(mechanical, electrical, plumbing) firm's for the past 5 years and I was wondering if anyone could clarify what the difference is between an engineer and a designer. I have always applied for positions as an engineer, because I have a degree in engineering, however I have come across designers with degrees. also designers seem to get paid less than engineers.
How would you write the job desciption of an engineer and that of a designer.

Thanks

 

[Nella95]

In my mind, an engineer takes on more of a 'project' role without being a project engineer. A designer would handle individual parts, whereas an 'engineer' would handle the entire assembly, and how it works with the surrounding environment. But, but - with each company - the definition is slightly different.

Here's a little cynicism for ya: a 'designer' is much less likely to be sued whereas an 'engineer' licensed or not, accepts a little more of the blame.

 

[metengr]

Maybe.... however, here is one title I have seen used by companies -
Design Engineer

 

[ivymike]

I've been at companies with both "design engineers" and "designers." The distinction was degreed vs non-degreed, for the most part. "Design engineer" was to differentiate from "APQP engineer" or "Quality engineer" or "Process engineer" or "Supplier Development Engineer" or "Application engineer" or "Test Engineer" or any of the many other "engineer" functions around the office. The "design engineer" was responsible for (amongst other things) making sure that the design met the specs (cost, quality, durability, reliability, fit, finish, etc), was completed on time, and was properly evaluated. For some reason, engineers performing analysis were usually not called "design engineers" despite the vital contribution of their work to the design of a part. Designers were usually responsible for CAD models and releasing (which many of them considered to be the entirety of "designing" a part).

 

[TheTick]

My experience, having worked from machinist to designer to my current "Design Engineer/Project Engineer" role...

Responsibility: Designers have the luxury of having engineers taking responsibility (holding accountability) for the integrity of a design.

Accountability: Project engineers are the ones who are held accountable. Rarely do I see a designer held accountable for a project's performance.

 

[johnsmith2]

What is the difference between designer and draftman?

 

[ctopher]

Usually Designers will do some engineering and their own drafting. A drafter usually does drawings as instructed by the designer, engineer or supervisor and maintain docs and do ECO's.
Engineer - theory/approve
Designer - design/submit
Drafter - document

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
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[EngJW]

There used to be a pronounced difference, and maybe there still is if you work for a large company with lots of people and money, but more likely the engineer does it all: engineer, designer, drafstman, secretary, maintainer of boms, technician, and whatever else depending on the job. It doesn't work in reverse, however. I suppose there a places where a secretary is made engineer, but the work can't be too technical.

 

[Beggar]

...the engineer does it all: engineer, designer, drafstman, secretary, maintainer of boms, technician, and whatever else depending on the job

This has been typical of my experience once away from Lockheed and AlliedSignal.

Even more so, I've experienced a lot of blur between intra-discipline boundaries. The result of all the force reductions and attention to headcount has made it nigh impossible for all but the largest to have specialization.

It's not such a good thing but has been my reality.

To the original question, here's my view:

1) Engineer: Conception, theory, modeling, preparation of specifications, design validation and testing, protocol development, preliminary documentation (prep or support)

Management and/or direction of support personnel. Overall responsibility for success of project

2) Designer: Work to engineer's specifications to generate detailed part features, select appropriate components, and work out assembly details

3) Drafter/Detailer: Work to engineer/designer specifications to produce finished shop drawings for production use. Drawing revision to match as-built configuration.

At the small companies (5-50 people) where I've been, all those tasks are dumped on the engineer.

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[Twoballcane]

My take is that designers (design engineers included) are experts at the nuts and bolts of the product (know what size, where to use them, etc…) and the engineers are experts at the theoretical knowledge of the nuts and bolts (Young’s modules, stress and strain, etc…).

 

[RobWard]

Designer stubble = cool
Engineer stubble = slob


Go figure.

"I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go past." Douglas Adams

 

[ctopher]

Rob,
I have never looked at it that way.


Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 05
AutoCAD 05
ctopher's home site (updated 06-21-05)
FAQ559-1100
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[HDS]

It means different things everywhere you go.

In Japan the engineering group gets the product made and the design group defines what it is.

In the US the Manufacturing group gets the product made and the Engineering group defines what it is while the Designers decide what it should look like.

Unless they are an Industrial Designer often the designer will be the lower level position with a less technical degree.

 

[ctopher]

Sadly, some companies in the U.S., engineering decides what it should be and purchasing decides what it is. I have seen this at more than one company. Desingers/Drafters document as products are getting shipped out.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 05
AutoCAD 05
ctopher's home site (updated 06-21-05)
FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716

 

[cadnutcase]

Toro,

Don't always assume designers get paid less than engineers.
I know a lot of designers that get paid more that the engineers do.

 

[cadnutcase]

ctoper,

I just saw your comment, I have also seen that happen many times.

 

[ProEDesigner00]

Greetings

I am considered a designer. I have a 2 year degree as a tool maker, and I have 17 yrs of building and maintaining such devices. I seen my brother enter into the workforce and try to do a 2 yr drafting school at the same time. He soon become an expert in using Pro/ENGINEER and with in a year of begining his schooling quit because of the work opportunities he was given. He has since developed his skills into a software expert. I have followed the same route. Not only do his and my apptitude in how things are done mechanically enhance our design ability but we have seen that an "engineer" is someone who cannot specialize in using a software package to its full potential due to the other responsabilities an he/she has, or develop his/her modeling skills to the accuracy needed to develope robust/accurate models/assemblies that down stream users find easy to use.

I envy engineers apptitude to formulate mathmatically the solutions to a desired result. When asked to participate in a solution I am able to come into the problem from a neutral position and sometimes offer angles(suggestions) that might not be obvious to the engineer due to his/her inexperience with the software and hands on experiences I actually experience having to make and build what I was shown on a drawing.

My opinions and thoughts from this point out as to where engineering and R&D is going is like alot of you. We are not producing enough people in this country to be an innovation leader in this world and in 50-100 yrs from now we will not be leaders.

It is sad that our work force is such as it is and the learning instiutions have become what they are. As Americans/Enginers/Innovators we have to wake up and teach our kids discipline, teach them "long term goal application" skills instead of immediate self gratification. There is alot to be said here and other forum list to say it on but this whole thing lights a fire under my rear-end.

I am now stepping off my soap box, bending carefully over to pick it and walking away!

Have a good day!

 

[ewh]

I think that TheTick is spot on.
I have seen what Chris is refering to.
In my own experience, a designer takes over after the engineer has defined the scope and general (and specific) characteristics of what is required. From there, the designer creates a cad model, configures hardware and assemblies, documents the parts and assemblies (what drafter/detailers used to do), and incorporates any change orders.
I haven't worked with a drafter/detailer for over 15 years now. They seem to be going the way of the checker.

 

[EngJW]

There are also the project managers, project engineers, group leaders, or whatever title is used by the particular company, that really don't do much engineering or designing but they supervise (beat up on) people, take care of the meetings and politics, watch over the budget and schedule, and serve as window dressing at GM if they have a good haircut and the right suit. They get the credit when things go right, but are the first ones to be fired when the schedule slips. They are good to have around as they take a lot of this burden off the engineers. Some people are meant for this type of work but many engineers aren't.

 

[ewh]

ProEDesigner00's experiences reflect my own as to how today's cad packages need power users to get the most out of them.
I have heard the arguments that knowing one cad system is all you really need, because it will be easy to pick up others. This is only true to a certain degree. I had spent many years as a contract designer, and we were (are) paid better than the direct engineers, and as much as most contract engineers. This is because, if a company is at a point that it hires a contractor, the last thing they want to do is wait for them to come up to speed on the cad system.
Can I learn another system? Sure, but I won't be nearly as productive until that learning curve is passed.