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What will the price of crude bring next....shale oil? 2

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jmw

Industrial
Jun 27, 2001
7,435
The EIS (Energy Information Service) advises (what we already know) that while it took a long time to break the $100 a barrel target, the £200 a barrel barrier won't be long following.

What I wonder is what new changes the rising price of crude will bring and what the critical values are.
For example, Shale oil: when does the price make it too attractive not to exploit on a major scale?

Back in 2006 when crude was $40 a barrel someone asked whether shale oil would ever be viable. ((
Shale oil is profitable in some processes at $30 a barrel. The USA has some of the largest deposits of shale oil in the Green River deposits. This means that it is increasingly attractive as a means to recover energy self-sufficiency.

The downside is environmental.

One thing I anticipate is that truth is going to take a further hit and there will be some shifts in the Environmental Propaganda war which already obscures the truth to a remarkable degree.

One might argue that there is a vested interest in energy self-sufficiency that means that the USA, for example, could find it expedient to exploit its Green River deposits.
To that end, the Anthropogenic Global Warming fanciers might find themselves a embarrassment, Al Gore could end up in Quantanamo Bay..... (I'll go along with that).

Of course, this also means putting a lot of support behind the ideas that temperatures have fallen and been falling for the last 10 years and disproving the claimed causal link between CO2 rises and a consequence temperature rise (Shale oil production releases a lot of CO2).

On the other hand, the environmental issues are a handy tool with which to attack the western economies which means that the environmentalist groups could become more obviously under the control of the anarchists.

The interesting question then isn't simply shale oil, but what are the critical price levels for other changes, innovations etc and what are those innovations or major changes we can expect?

JMW
 
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Coal is also a viable option - even more so if the British government allows the use of the Liquid Solvent Extraction method of converting it to syncrude, at over 95% efficiency.

Unfortunately, the UK is keeping the lid on it - and, as a result, millions of people are starving to death because of the increased price of corn etc. because of the ethanol boom.

Hopefully, soon, global warming alarmists will become embarrassed at all the deaths they are causing.
 
The crude-oil market is in what traders call cotango, meaning futures contracts for a given product are priced higher than that same good for near-term

When the market is in contango, refiners tend to operate at the top of their tanks.

A skilful trader can quite possibly buy a cargo of oil at a rather low price to quickly resell it at a profit, if others need the cargo more than he does and are ready to pay the price. So, it is not rare for a cargo of oil to change ownership during transport, sometimes several times: destined initially for the United States, it is purchased during transport by a refiner in Rotterdam in the Netherlands and finally finishes up at the Fos-sur-Mer refinery, which had a more pressing need for it.

All of these situations are also responsible for oil price increase.

Oil for food? Peak oil? governement taxes? speculation?

Crude oil will be more and more expensive, nowdays is impossible to preview its price

luismarques
 
First, $100/bbl oil is not expensive. $200/bbl is just about flat with pre-1976 Oil Embargo prices adjusted for inflation.

The media hysteria has created an environment where everyone thinks the sky is falling and we will all be eating grass by next winter because of the "high" energy prices. There are some current hardships, but those are totally caused by 30 years of outrageously inexpensive energy and the expectation that it would always be this cheep.

One unintended consequence of cheep energy is that research that would have had a very good chance of providing truly cheep energy (i.e., something with an attractive balance between cost of finding, cost to deliver, cost of using, and longevity) has not been done. In the 70's every large Oil company had R&D folks. After 1986 only the very largest oil companies still had research departments and those were operating under sharply curtailed budgets. Today the rare research center is staffed with people who's job is to dole out funds to research projects at universities and Joint Industry Projects.

With "Windfall Profits Tax" and similar noise, I don't see any oil companies re-establishing their research departments--the future is simply too uncertain. Bringing any of the tar sands or oil shale projects on line tends to be a multi-decade undertaking and no one is taking the long view here.

I think that if there is an effective alternative fuel developed it will come from somebodies basement and it is really hard to predict when and where someone with both the technical talent and entrapanurial fervor will come from.

David
 
I actually heard a US national news reporter mention "a new record in the current oil price bubble" last week. I thought it was interesting that a news program was going against the grain and called it a bubble instead of having the typical "oil prices will hit $113532/barrel by Christmas" attitude.

(Sorry, this was kind of off topic).

Bob
 
I ran across this


I hope they dont do it... I kinda like the current arousal that is causing people to think about life... and the future... and the past, which has been brought about because of high fuel prices. Increased fuel prices will cause problems only for a short time... then they will be hopefully all fix by the time my kid (or kids if I have another) are older.

...and more people are biking so its becoming safer!!
 
It makes sense that the threat of windfall profits tax stymies the incentive to make investments for future growth. If the investment is bad, you take the loss. If the investment is good, the government will want a big cut.

I hear a lot of sentiment lately that the US government should be removing the barriers to exploration (off-shore, Alaska etc). But I don't here the same sentiment toward establishing a productive business and regulatory environment to encourage research and exploration. In fact the windfall profit buzz is still going on.

One thing was brought to mind lately - the oil market it global. Becoming more self sufficient sounds good. But in reality the benefit only comes to the extent that we increase supply enough to bring the world-wide price down, right? Since US is a relatively small player in the global supply, even a substantial fractional increase in US supply wouldn't have a lot of effect.... would it?



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The U.S. imported 67% of the motor fuels we used in 2007. That equates to nearly $2 billion/day being spent on imports. If domestic production increased 10% (from 43% to 47% say) then we reduce the bleeding by something like $100 million/day. That simply cannot be a bad thing when you create US jobs at the same time. It may even have a slight downward bias on prices, but that is a secondary effect.

How do you do it? Simply create a political environment where where the industry is not quivering in fear of Draconian regulations.

I learned today that during a time that I'm getting 6-10 headhunter calls per week, several of the big oil companies are laying off engineers (one recently cut 30% of the engineering staff). Why? Because their 7-8% return on capital is seen by the market as sub-par. Because the market is expecting government intervention up to and including nationalization. Because the engineers are not terribly effective in an environment with reduced delegation of authority. Because they can't make themselves see any long-term future.

I just wonder who is going to be willing to invest the capital to drill in ANWR, offshore Florida, or offshore California if the political football does eventually come to rest.

David
 
If domestic production increased 10% (from 43% to 47% say) then we reduce the bleeding by something like $100 million/day. That simply cannot be a bad thing when you create US jobs at the same time.
Thanks. I forgot that tiny detail.

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We gotta think out of the box. Oil Shale. Coal to syncrude. That type of stuff. Hopefully this cooling trend will continue so people will forget about the global warming scam. It may be too late - the Cheney's etc. may be all set up for cap and trade and that will happen even if we roll into an ice age...
 
The recent Supreme Court Decision in Massachusetts v. EPA that requires the EPA to do something about greenhouse gases just about ensures a cap and trade system. The mercantile exchanges are already gearing up to make it happen.

David
 
The U.S. imported 67% of the motor fuels we used in 2007. That equates to nearly $2 billion/day being spent on imports

We gotta think out of the box

Its not even that difficult:

I was driving back to LAX airport one afternoon last week on Highway 91 - 5 lanes in each direction. The LH lane was signed HOV (High Occupancy Vehicles) which means 2 or more, and was just about empty - I would guess that at least 50% of the very small number of cars in the HOV lane only had one occupant

The other 4 lanes going towards LAX were nose-to-tail large SUVs and pickups, all with one person in.

With the numbers being discussed, just a small increase in fuel efficiency (or using smaller cars) will result in huge savings.



 
Coal is also a viable option - even more so if the British government allows the use of the Liquid Solvent Extraction method of converting it to syncrude, at over 95% efficiency.

Unfortunately, the UK is keeping the lid on it - and, as a result, millions of people are starving to death because of the increased price of corn etc. because of the ethanol boom.

Really?? - got any (non-hysterical) evidence that the YOOK is causing milions of people to starve to death?.
 
TPL - I'm not sure what you doubt. Is it that the UK govt owns LSE or that LSE is cost effective. Which is it?
 
Shale oil will come into play once the seemingly huge reserves of Snake Oil dry up.

- Steve
 
LCruiser, do you perhaps have a link to more details on the UK govt cover up of LSE?

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...
 
LCruiser - the bit I doubt is

the UK is keeping the lid on it - and, as a result, millions of people are starving to death


Millions? Really? and its all the fault of the UK?
 
LCruiser - please leave your conspiracy theories in the other thread.

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There is a lot of information on the web from reputable sources about the Liquid Solvent Extraction method becoming cost effective once crude reaches about $40 per barrel.

Kenat - the answer I get when I ask about why it's not used is that the UK govt holds several patents on the process and other information is "trade secrets". I will continue to push for more information.

TPL - that's the weakest straw man I've ever seen. Surely you can do better than that.
 
Coal gasification has been around a long time. To my understanding developed in WW2 and widely used in South Africa. What is the reason this technology is not expanding? Is it concern of GHG ? (without going into discussion of whether those concerns are valid or not)


From what I understand, there has been a lot of investment in solar development lately, so certainly investors think there is a big long-term upside to solar. It is one area where the raw input (sun) is already widely available. All we need is the technology to figure out how to effectively harness it. Efficiencies down somewhere in the range 10-15% now (fraction of incoming sunlight converted to electrical power). Lots of room for improvement.

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