When do you earn a bonus? 1

[Binary]

I'd like feedback on this situation:

I started working for a company late in the year. On the last day before the holiday shut-down, the boss circulated and presented people with their bonus checks. I didn't get one. I'd only been there for a couple of months so I figured that I'd not earned it. That's fine.

Toward the end of the following year, I was offered a position with another company. Since it was within 3 weeks of the holiday shut-down (& award of bonuses), I decided to hold-off giving notice until I got the bonus.

The boss was very angry. To me, though, it was appropriate. I view year-end bonuses as a reward for what you've done in the preceding year. Given that the prior year, he didn't give me a bonus, the boss must've thought the same thing - the bonus is for what you did, not what you're going to do.

So what do you think, was I unethical in holding off my notice for 3 weeks in order to collect my bonus or was I justified given the successes that I'd had over the prior 12 months?

 

[melone]

He is just upset that you figured out the rules to the game....

 

[ctopher]

I did the same thing you did a long time ago, got the bonus, and don't regret doing it. It may be unethical, but I haven't been with a company yet that wasn't.
It's a cruel world.

 

[TheTick]

Nothing unethical about using the rules to your advantage. You didn't lie, cheat or steal.

Had you been laid off a week before bonus time, I doubt they would have given you the bonus.

All this machinery making modern music can still be open-hearted.

 

[IRstuff]

The question should be: did you earn that bonus? If the answer is yes, then you deserved to get it.

I would opine that your former manager isn't worth losing sleep over, particularly given his begrduging attitude about something that you deserved to get.

TTFN

 

[TheTick]

"You don't get what you deserve. You get what you negotiate."
--Chester Karras

 

[GregLocock]

Nice quote Tick. I agree with everyone else, no problemo. The only downside is that you will be unlikely to get a job working for him again- not, as it turns out, a tragedy.



Cheers

Greg Locock

 

[electricpete]

The fact that he viewed the timing as so critical might indicate that he would have stiffed you the entire year's bonus if he had the chance.

3 jobs back, when I left my job the HR people who were usually very considerate and fair did not hesitate to scr*w me over on some issues of bonus when I left in late November. If got zero % of my annual bonus... ok company policy. But there was an incentive day off awarded to everyone in the company based completely on a goal/milestone which was achieved/completed in April... I did not get paid for that one measly day.. The pay for single day off ticked me off more than the bonus (which would have been lots more $), simply because there was no way any rational person could rationalize it.

Moral of the story, sc*ew them of they'll sc*ew you.

BTW, I am now working for the same company again.

 

[brad]

You did nothing unethical. That doesn't mean that you didn't leave your former manager with a sore taste. That's his problem. Bonuses or otherwise, you honored the terms of your "contract" (presuming the standard North American contract of two weeks official notice).

If the rules of the game are that you give two weeks notice, which you did, he's a whiner to lay a guilt trip on you. I've got horror stories that go the other way (employees getting nailed by intentionally obscure, ill-defined policies). You were within policy, and as long as you didn't lie about long-term intents, I see nothing at all questionable in your behavior (all the same, you may want to look somewhere other than this manager for references).
Brad

 

[Comcokid]

The only questionable thing in this situation was the reaction of your boss. After the initial supprise, he should have wished you well, and expressed hope that you could work together in the future.

The bonus was give for work done. All you did was expose another reason for finding a new job.

 

[PSE]

A bonus is exactly that. It is not generally tied to part of normal compensation as it is not something that you can depend upon receiving. As a contributor to the company having a year sufficient to merit a bonus, you were entitled to receive it. As to the timing of your departure, if you were employed "at will", there would be no necessity for you to provide notice. The anger in your former boss was misplaced. Although he/she may have vented possible frustration at having to work at finding a replacement for your position over a shutdown period.

Regards

 

[patdaly]

Bonus? You mean Engineers are supposed to get a Bonus?

LOL, Be glad your company had one, enjoy spending it. Your old manager was only sorry he had to pay it. You correctly assume you earned it for performance throughout the year.

 

[TheBlacksmith]

Way to go. There seem to be so many ways to limit the compensation given to the workers while maximizing the prices a company charges that using the rules to your advantage is pure genius. You and only you have your best interests at heart. Enjoy every penny - you earned it and I'm sure the company did okay selling your efforts, or there wouldn't have been a bonus.

Blacksmith

 

[IFRs]

To paraphrase a famous person: "If I am not for myself then who will be? But if I am only for myself, what am I?"

I think we can look out for our own best interests without sidestepping the rules or hurting another person.

Binary - I think you did that well.

 

[Scoobystu]

The company I work for has an annual bonus scheme that gets paid out at the end of the year. I joined in March 2002 and received nothing because I had to have been there for a full year to qualify - fair enough. At my annual pay review in February 2003 I was awarded 11/12ths of a pay rise as at that point I had only been there for 11 months even although my pay increase was to cover the coming year. I took that as an indication that my performance was poor although I was assured it was company policy.

I know what I will be doing at the end of the year.

 

[Comcokid]

Having made one post to this discussion, I'll make another.

Binary - your are right in questioning your motives and your ethics involved in your actions. It is a good thing to examine and check yourself on the decisions you made. I would say in this case, you did nothing unethical. The only question then would be - were your motives correct? Only you can answer that.

I just wish more people in the work environment would question their decisions, behavior, and motives more often. I have seen people waltz beyond ethical boundaries without a second thought or notion that they might have crossed a line, and I have seen people deliberately and knowingly do unethical things as a means of achieving what they wanted. In both of those situations, I doubt they'll ever loose a nights sleep because self-examination was not a part of their personalities.

 

[brad]

Scoobystu--
My current company has the same policy. However, this was made very clear to me prior to my joining. Do I wish I'd gotten the full bonus/full raise in that first year? Yes. However, I knew the rules going in. This is an often-overlooked thing which SHOULD be discussed during the interview process.

Be careful not to equate poor communication on the part of HR (during your hiring) with an intent to "screw" the employee.

Brad

 

[Scoobystu]

Bradh

I knew that I wouldn't get the bonus and that doesn't bother me. Nothing was mentioned before I started about getting a proportional pay rise. I have never encountered this anywhere else in the past. It is something I will be asking about in future. Is this a common tactic? I also thought that giving me 11/12ths was a bit petty but rules is rules I suppose.....

 

[PM]

Don't confuse morality with ethics. Given that ethics embody a set of rules, . . .exactly what rule do you think was violated?

Regards,