When is too much too much 5

[tulum]

Hello,

Very basic question; When is it ok to retaliate to a jab one of your biggest customer makes towards you?

Basically, I was questioning the way he wanted a portion of a circuit connected (I emailed him directly). He replied via email (copying all his companies big wigs) basically answering my question but adding a jab to the likes of "there is probably a manufacturers manual on the web if I wanted to educate myself on the subject"!

And straight from the begining he had drawn it wrong on his initial drawing, but corrected himself in the reply email (without mention of this fact of course).

I replied back to his email thanking him for the clarification and told him that I would insure the circuit was designed as per the below email and assume that his initial drawings were incorrectly draw and superseded by the below email.


I took a whole lot of flack for this. I guess I went to far...Live and learn.

What would you have done?

Regards,
TULUM

 

[bioengr82]

Exact same thing. And probably gotten flack too.

 

[ziggi]

First of all, this other person was not behaving in a professional manner, he might just have been having a bad day, but thats no excuse. Basically he called you an idiot only in nicer tones, and the fact that he knows he is a big customer and sent the email to the big wigs suggests that he is a coward as well.
I would have first brought email this to my boss, along with any other correspondence you guys may have had. To showcase this person's unprofessional behaviour. I would not have responded with a direct jab, but I would have made damn sure that everyone saw both sides of the story, ie. what you originally sent and his incorrect design changes. I would then have rationally explained my position and how it relates to his. Essentially you want to make him look like the dick by acting calm and rational and prove that he's in the worng. You want it to look like you're the adult and he's the petulant child.
In other words don't relatiate, turn his insult against him, you don't get flack and he loses some stature.
You can thank Machiavelli for that one.

 

[CanEngJohn]

I'll second bioengr82's response.

Only thing I would add at this point is be professional and polite even when jabbing back at someone whom you are perceiving as an idiot.

 

[bandraoi]

Sounds to me like you had the perfect response - you were polite - in that you thanked him, and you were covering your own ass by clarifying that the new change was in fact the design rather than the original, therefore giving him no comeback if he changes his minde.

My next step if people were giving me flack would have been to play innocent and simply refuse to understand their problem with your response.
As far as you're concerned you had to establish which was the definitive design since you didn't want to cost the man any money by making a mistake.

 

[lostsailor]

tulum,
Live and learn. I hate to be a cynic ( I wasn't born this way ) but I've learned to learned to balance the moral high ground with paying the bills ( for me, an expensive lesson ). I'm sure your superiors understand the situation. Being the customer tends to bring with it a lot of latitude for attitude. At the end of the day, everyone knows what the score is.
Regards,
RLS

 

[livingston]

I would have done the same thing. I am a young cynic. If you had said nothing, he would have continued on the same path. At least this way, he may think twice before doing it again.

 

[whyun]

Alternative is to act like an idiot yourself and point out the discrepancy and request their clarification.

In my years of structural design, architects send me their drawings from which I prepare the structural drawings. One advice I received from one of my former bosses is "Don't correct their spelling errors". While many may appreciate you for pointing out their error, a few would find extreme offence. As I get older, I've learned to close-my-eyes more often (as long as its not life or death)

 

[kchayfie]

I would speculate that the flack you took was due to the tone in your e-mail rather than the content because I can't see anything wrong with the response as it is posted above. Either that or some of the people you work with are extremely sensitive about upsetting others.

If you'd asked him to lend you the manual he'd obviously only just learnt from, implying stupidity rather than a mistake on his part - that I would think might be going too far!

 

[epoisses]

this is why I prefer the phone...

 

[jmw]

There is a saying, "the customer is always right."
It is, of course, a complete nonsense.
The real message is that it is the customer who pays the bills and you wont get anywhere by taking offense, by biting back or by getting clever.
The only person who will suffer is you.
Its just one of those facts of life.

If your customer gets smart with you and copies all and sundry, the chances are everyone else, his colleagues and your boss', will all know the true situation. They will far more admire and respect a diplomatic approach or an approach where you simply correct the "error" without comment.

If you are really concerned that your boss may think you are at fault for something on the basis of one email he has received out of context, then be sure to get your diplomatic answer prepared, go see your bos and say "look, this is what this guys said and here is what he actually did. Am i alraight to send this reply?"

Result? Kudos.

If you fire back, you may find yourself on the receiving end for all the wrong reasons except one, you shouldn't take it personally.

The real problem is that each in his own way we are all jackasses at some time or other. Some more than others and many among your customers.

Customers may be wrong but most times you find a way to make things right by not challenging them, not showing them up but by finding them a way to "save face".

"Hey Bob, I think this may be a better way to hook this up, what do you think?"

PS how many people did your email pointing up the problem go to in the first place?

Incidentally, I am very wary about what I say in emails now. That "FW:" button makes people lazy and they will forward your comments to them to all and sundry, warts and all.

Life isn't fair, people aren't perfect but all you've got to do is avoid becoming a victim, especially of someone elses mistake.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[HVAC68]

Did your first e-mail have a reference to his incorrect drawing ???

HVAC68

 

[epoisses]

Fully agree with jmw. The customer is always right, if even they may (will):
- put you under unreasonable time pressure
- blame you for all their mistakes
- forward your offer and other confidential information to your competitor(s) by accident or on purpose
- etc etc.

My golden rule is:
AGREE IN WRITING
DISAGREE BY PHONE

 

[tulum]

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

If I think back now, and had to do it again, I MAY let it go next time. I do believe though I did retaliate in a professionally worded manner, which may have been my saving grace. I will take the above comments to heart when confronted with similiar situations in the future.

Thanks,

 

[waskillywabbit]

I'm sure "retaliate" and "professional" cannot be in the same action, no matter how nicely worded.

Resist the urge to "react" or "retaliate" to those that provoke you in business, simply "respond" with the factual information. Didn't say it was easy, but it'll keep you the flack to a minimum. You can be personable w/o taking things personal.

I deal w/ specs and designs all the time and agree with epises 110% (you get a star), call them on the PHONE and have them confirm with an email.

Brian

 

[tulum]

Waski,

Just a figure of speach in an open forum, not meant to be disected... just used the most descriptive words so everyone could understand what I was refering to...

As per my first email; I believe I did respond with factual information....

Anywho, thanks for the tips I will keep them in mind...

 

[waskillywabbit]

See how easy just words are to misunderstand with no verbal tones etc from a personal conversation? I meant no malice or dissection!

Brian

 

[sms]

tulum, in my opinion the guy is a bully, you didn't let him get away with it, so there is a very good chance that he won't mess with you anymore (but don't count on it).

JMW said "If your customer gets smart with you and copies all and sundry, the chances are everyone else, his colleagues and your boss', will all know the true situation. They will far more admire and respect a diplomatic approach or an approach where you simply correct the "error" without comment."

I am going to have to disagree. My experience with managers is that even if they have the capability of understanding a technical issue, they won't take the time. The chances are that everyone else, the bosses, the customers staff, tulums collegues, etc will not take the time to understand the true situation and will just assume the customers comments were correct and that tulum is an idiot.

That guy may well have done great damage to tulum's career, I think tulum did the right thing in defending himself in as professional manner possible.


-The future's so bright I gotta wear shades!

 

[epoisses]

All customers have their (commercial) reasons to be bullies. Some really are, some not (out of pity). No customer should every annoy you by being a bully UNLESS he won't pay.

 

[davidinindy]

If he cc'd everyone else with an email that didn't pertain to them, they'll probably just wonder "why the heck (saying it nicely) did he send this email to me?" The smart one's will see thru it. The others... Who cares.
Just keep things professional from your end, and you'll be fine.
I wouldv'e called him to clarify, though.
I prefer to use the phone, and follow-up with a summary email. Things are just much better understood when voiced over the phone.

David