When no one is listening? 7

[IJR]

I have lived through this one many times and done well:

The firm I am working for is not good at keeping the staff- so we have newcomers(they often become leavers) and leavers on regular basis. I happen to stay in place as a matter of experience.

Blessed with a great positive energy I get along well with almost everyone the good, the bad and the ugly.The problem here is not actually the person but their experience and their position. Some very inexperienced new ones tend to take serious positions by themselves because there is always a way to do that in our firm. And I have to correct their errors by advanced tactics without hurting no one. I do this by acting well ahead of time and silently ignoring what seems to be not critical. Most of the time my judgement works though there has been times when I jet lagged. I regard that as worth the risk.

Is there a better way just for purpose of discussion? I can not discuss this with the bosses. They are not organization minded though they have nothing against me at all.

My sincere respects

 

[IRstuff]

I guess the basic question is: "who appointed you to do this task?"

If you are willing and able to your own job and everyone else's, then more power to you. I cannot see how this is good for your own job performance.

If the others leave anyway, then it seems to me to be a waste of time covering for them. And since you are not erally training or mentoring them, it's likewise a waste of your time.

Since you are unwilling to rock the boat, either keep doing it or quit and find a company with proper environment.

TTFN

 

[epoisses]

It sounds like you're the person thanks to whom the boat keeps floating, but you're fed up with your own altruistic approach...
You wrote you can't discuss this with the bosses, but I believe you can't do much else than discuss it with the bosses if you want to change things.
Discuss it rather than giving up anticipating and correcting errors.
Your bosses are supposed to be organisation-minded, that's their job. If they're really not, you may choose to become a leaver as well.

 

[friartuck]

Good companies have 'exit interviews'whereby staff who are leaving air their views. It seems if your company is that bad, you can do three things.

a. Leave without saying a word
b.Discuss it with them (You may still leave if they don't listen)
c. Put up with it and be miserable

ITS YOUR CHOICE.

I have been in similar situations and usually the management are so bad, they don't appreciate that there is a problem. If however they do understand and still don't care, then I wouls say 'hasta la vista baby'

Friar Tuck of Sherwood

 

[IJR]

Great comments and very relevant pals, my thanks

I am not really fed up, because I believe that we must learn sometimes to live with problems and I am doing well there. By sticking to my place I am much more in control now than the guys who left and joined other firms five years ago. I just thought there would be fellows in similar situations who would tell me how they handle things better.

It is more of "how do you handle that guys" then "what should I do?".


Thanks

issa

 

[IRstuff]

But how is covering up for incompetence "doing well there." And why are you doing that? Ultimately, you are degrading the capabilities of the company and undermining its performance by:

> Allowing incompetent engineers to get by, which reduces the overall productivity and competence of the company

> Reducing your own productivity by doing the work of others

> Increasing your own stress level and degrading yuor quality of life. The fact that you are posting this on a weekend and looking for advice on how to "handle things better" bears that out.

To be frank, YOU are creating and maintaining that environment that you claim to object to and want to "handle better." Are you perhaps experiencing "Munchausen by proxy" syndrome? It seems to me that you are perhaps getting some sort of secret thrill by doing this.

BUT, you are hurting yourself and your company in doing this. You should stop this, if nothing else, for your own sanity and health.

TTFN

 

[HDS]

Have you thought about how what you are doing could be contributing to the problems with people leaving? I don't like having someone else change my work without telling me why. It makes me wonder why I am are doing the work if it is allways changed and is a good reason to leave.

 

[IJR]

Very good discussion friends and very good assumptions as well.

Thanks and please go on assessing the situation.

HDS: Go on tell me what if no one changes your work because I never do that.On the contrary I even help you. Assume someone who knows your incapabilities quickly prepares a solid basis for you to work on without you even feeling it. And mind you it is only your absolute incapabilities which gets taken care of quietly and fast, not your capabilities. That is actually what is happening with reference to me. you are going to do. I am too fast.

IRstuff is right: I sometimes have to wear myself out. But if I dont then I will probably wear myself twice off.

Lets look at it not as a precaution against persons but rather as a precaution against ineffective decisions. As I mentioned before I get along well with everyone.

respects
ijr

 

[Standing]

IJR,
I would suggest you read Covey's “7 Habits for Highly Successful People.

Bradley

 

[IRstuff]

> It's even worse if you're doing this behind the scenes. How are these other engineers ever going to improve, unless they learn what to do and what NOT to do.

> By your subterfuge, you make them dependent on you and you apparently enjoy putting yourself into that situation so that you can get your jollies by "saving" them.

> The notion that it will make things worse for yourself if you don't do that is a rationalization that is not borne out by rational thought.

> Please see a mental health professional. You do not have a real engineering or management problem. As attributed to Walt Kelley's Pogo, "We have met the enemy, and they are us."

TTFN

 

[IJR]

Special thanks pals, great comments

IRstuff, To be so sure is not really helpful to me. The point is not persons, it is ineffective authorities caused by a form of chaos in which I survive really well. What is in an ineffective authority? How do you handle that?Hasnt anyone lived though an incapable management in a risky assignment? Can you concentrate on that and forget me for a while?.

The point is more of a case than people involved. I can not accept any advice which assumes the case is about people. As I mentioned in my first post, I have no problem with anyone. Strange dont find it. I know of professors who have to deal with similar situations caused by political takeovers. It is a situation one has to live with occassionally and it is really interesting.

respects
IJR

 

[IRstuff]

My comments apply to your "authorities" as well.

You are protecting those very authorities from being exposed as incompetent.

For that matter, why would those authorities even see that there are problems if you are so diligent about covering them up?

TTFN

 

[IJR]

Yes IRstuff,you have a point here and I must thank you for clearly seeing that.

From your post I can conclude tha my mistake is in covering up and the danger is in getting so used to it. The experience is rich enough and I can continue like this forever but the concern is looking for a better way out. Being a quiet diplomat is OK I guess, but yes there is harm in doing this for a long term. I agree.

respects
IJR

 

[Standing]

I believe IRstuff is right. What you are doing is called codependency. I enabled others in the beginning of my career. I always had problems meeting my own deadlines. Now what I do, if I see trouble, is inform the responsible person. Let them fix it. If they do not fix it, then management finds out and they get the help they need.
Now part of my job is to train others with management’s permission. I feel better not hiding the work I was doing and I also get created for my work.


Bradley

 

[IJR]

Thanks Bradley, Thanks IRstuff and all

Very helpful comments here. In fact my intuition has told me several times to keep out as much as is possible and allocate all work hours to my own work.

Your comments make me understand that this is correct. Put out a fight(it is easier in my position and experience) and get everyone else to do their own job properly.

Bradley, how do management find out if the responsible person does not fix your problem? In my firm if the responsible person doesnt fix it then that is it! You have to wait with prayers or simply do what I do: develop quiet peaceful tactics to get it fixed, a form of killer diplomacy. Remember, I told you that here bosses and managers do not give a pint on the so called "order"!

respects
IJR

 

[IRstuff]

You do have a challenging situation, but it's somewhat of a technical problem nonetheless. You'll need to see what buttons to push and how to do it.

Does management suffer no consequences when projects fail? If so, then you'll need to figure out how to motivate your management into doing the right thing regardless. If not that, you have the option of leaving now, or leaving when everything crumbles. No big loss, bad jobs abound.

Ultimately, this is the mark of a good manager, to motivate and guide one's subordinates (or superiors) into doing what's required to make a project a success.

Ultimately, you need to remember that at the end of the day (or your life), will you regret spending less time and effort at work or will you regret having missed critical points in the lives of your family because you were fighting fires that should not have existed at all.

I worked for a manager who basically wound up working 12 hrs a day, despite that fact that he had over 10 people he could have delegated to. Despite efforts on my part and on his manager's part, he continued on without change. Some people simply cannot change and are somehow unwilling to let go. Unfortunately, for them, they will not realize what they've missed until it's too late.

TTFN

 

[IJR]

Thanks IRstuff

I am among those who are willing to change, and your comments here do matter

respects
IJR

 

[HDS]

IJR Your posts are very vague. Please, give us an example of what it is you are doing? Whay are you doing this? because there will be a safty issue with the design, will something be late, or is just not done as you would like it?

 

[IJR]

HDS

The post is general and I should not elaborate further. I am not complaining and only your opinion is requested. If you wish, then assume a situation as follows:

You are in the industry for years, you know your engineering, the way contract documents work, the way the client behaves and your job involves safety, short time and strict punishment from the client. You are among the very few who are familiar with all these as a matter of years.

Your manager is not aware and he is new to the trade as practiced in your office but he is not going to give you an ear for some political or whatever reason. And you know better than to deal with persons.

So over time(!!!) you develop a method to make sure the job is not messed up too much. And you do this quietly, most of the time by simply influencing by action and minimum verbs. So no one usually knows what is going on but things get where they should be in the end. Imagine you writing a short letter describing an expected delay to the client but the signature is left for the manager, not you, simply because you know the client cares about being informed but the manager doesnt know that. I have done that a hundred times and will do that forever knowing it is a good thing, saves me and us from unnecessary legal stuff.

And you think there must be a better way. You discuss with the pals at Eng-tips.

respects
ijr

 

[Standing]

IJR,
If management does not find out if the responsible person does not fix my problem, I quietly keep telling management my problem is not solved. Until someone else or I fix it. I do let management know that I fixed the problem. The more you fix, while letting management and others know this will or should give you more power.

I do not know exactly your situation, I hope that these ideas help.


Bradley